Wehr weak penetration
- This thread is locked
Posts: 1794
It affects nothing else.
Perfect. Solution.
another point about cost effectiveness, Panther wasted 2 vet XP on blitz and useless +10% armor.
Posts: 1979
Pen buff using HEAT will put pressure on Allies heavies and we see less complains about churchills IS2 and what not.
It affects nothing else.
Perfect. Solution.
the tiger is SUPPOSED to have less pen than the IS-2 you doof... it has higher base DPS mobility in exchange for armor and penetration... why cant you understand that?
another point about cost effectiveness, Panther wasted 2 vet XP on blitz and useless +10% armor.
the only real waste is this dumbass thread
Posts: 1794
IS2 has the new explosive ability while Blitz on Tiger is questionable, does blitz even blitz on heavy now? And against 60TD....
Tiger have faster gun, but other factors like IS2 faster repositioning and faster gun tracking, it is not so clear cut in heat of battle. That is you need to lock on the target first before the next processing.
But IS2 higher armor and slightly higer pen are more clear cut advantages in battle.
Tiger follows the theme of less pen in Wehr arsenal.
Posts: 5279
Posts: 1794
Faster ROF is the MOST clear cut advantage in the heat of battle...
Mostly if you have 60 range and at a safety distance and need not reposition your rear/side armor...
Posts: 1979
playercard please?
Posts: 1794
When a groundbreaker tries to challenge the old held beliefs, but outdated ones nonetheless, there are those who are afraid of the truth revealing for change...
Posts: 1979
Posts: 1794
I did my part.
Posts: 1979
Churchill Croc/AVRE : 290
Churchill : 240
Comet: 290
Pershing: 270
IS2: 375
ISU152: 340
KV1: 270
KV2: 300
KV8: 260
vs
Brumbar front/side armor 240, vet 288
Panther front/side armor 260, vet 286
Tiger front/side armor: 300
well youve ignored a large number of axis armor
KT 375
ele 400
JT 525
JP4 230
youve also posted penetration data that did not support your claim of wehrmacht having weaker penetration...
the panther is tied with the jackson in terms of penetration
Panther: 260/240/220
Jackson: 260/240/220
SU85: 240/230/220
FF: 260/240/210
youre also ignoring AT gun penetration... where OST is tied with UKF
Pak40: 210/200/190
6pdr: 210/200/190
Zis-3: 200/190/180
rak43: 200/190/180
57mm: 150/140/130
and of course medium penetration... where OST has the highest long range penetration and decent midrange penetration...
crom: 135/120/105
M4: 140/120/100
P4: 125/115/110
T-34: 120/100/80
and infantry AT... where OST/OKW win outright
panzerschreck: 180/170/160
bazooka: 130/120/110
PIAT: 130/116/110
PTRS: 100/85/70
i can humiliate you further by delving deeper into armor comparisons aswell... but the amount of information might overwhelm your insignificant mind...
substandard penetration my arse... caps my arse... stfu and l2p
Posts: 1351
you mean this?
Churchill Croc/AVRE : 290
Churchill : 240
Comet: 290
Pershing: 270
IS2: 375
ISU152: 340
KV1: 270
KV2: 300
KV8: 260
vs
Brumbar front/side armor 240, vet 288
Panther front/side armor 260, vet 286
Tiger front/side armor: 300
well youve ignored a large number of axis armor
KT 375
ele 400
JT 525
JP4 230
youve also posted penetration data that did not support your claim of wehrmacht having weaker penetration...
the panther is tied with the jackson in terms of penetration
Panther: 260/240/220
Jackson: 260/240/220
SU85: 240/230/220
FF: 260/240/210
Well - what about rate of fire, target aquistion connected with turret rotation speed, accuracy, damage on deflection, range, etc. I understand he posted stuff based on his "feel" of the game. It is pretty normal not being able to desribe it. What he probably meant is the situation when you take into account all the factors. The result will probably be that panther is not as fearsome as it seems to be and does not stand up to the myth that is is so good. Basically all the buffs to allied tanks and reductions to axis (especially) ost tanks mean that all of them are really comparable. Yet, wehen you include the price/value parameters often the higher price of a panther and other axis vehicles might not be justified. They just perform not much better to cheaper tanks. Tbh often they are not that siginficantly worse in real combat situations considering their price and tech requirements. Especially, when you look at how powerful they can be against tanks and infantry, and how many extra abilities they have.
youre also ignoring AT gun penetration... where OST is tied with UKF
Pak40: 210/200/190
6pdr: 210/200/190
Zis-3: 200/190/180
rak43: 200/190/180
57mm: 150/140/130
and you are ignoring rate of fire and gun's arcs as well as how durable their crew is. Pak is only marginally better (which means almost nothing in a real game scenario - 10 more penetration - ridiculous), while othe at guns have wider arcs of fire and often higher rate of fire.
and of course medium penetration... where OST has the highest long range penetration and decent midrange penetration...
crom: 135/120/105
M4: 140/120/100
P4: 125/115/110
T-34: 120/100/80
and again the differences are too tiny to be significant. Rate of fire, speed, turret riotation will be more important here. Again the price of p4 might not be justified here, the price of a panther might also be just too high.
and infantry AT... where OST/OKW win outright
panzerschreck: 180/170/160
bazooka: 130/120/110
PIAT: 130/116/110
PTRS: 100/85/70
...and again that is forgetting too many "details" on your part. Rate of fire is higher on the bazooka and and ptrs, there are different stats for bazookas on elite squads. Also you are ignoring the fact that accuracy is worse on shrecks, and that you can only equip the most expensive inf squads with them, while allies get many more squads with those hand held at options, so the density of them will be much higher. They also deal dmg even on deflection, etc. You are not drawing the full picture here. Think of satchels, for exaple that prevent dives to get those long range units.
i can humiliate you further by delving deeper into armor comparisons aswell... but the amount of information might overwhelm your insignificant mind...
substandard penetration my arse... caps my arse... stfu and l2p
that is just impolite, please be polite to your game commrades
Posts: 5279
Evidence - no they dont
Rebuttal-what about target acquisition and rate of fire and turret rotation?
Straws- grasped at
Probably about time to shut this thread down. I think it's served its purpose... What ever it happened to be...
Posts: 1351
Claim- Ost has low pen
Evidence - no they dont
Rebuttal-what about target acquisition and rate of fire and turret rotation?
Straws- grasped at
Probably about time to shut this thread down. I think it's served its purpose... What ever it happened to be...
but that is the key of the problem - many players feel certain faction uderperform, when it is the axis the threads are too quickly closed or laughed at.
Posts: 1351
Posts: 5279
but that is the key of the problem - many players feel certain faction uderperform, when it is the axis the threads are too quickly closed or laughed at.
People can feel how they like. That's the nice thing about stats. I could "feel" that vet 3 7 man cons are not as durable as a mortar crew but I'd be wrong.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
What about comet vs panther? Which is better?
At what?
Because against each other, panther roflstomps comet.
Posts: 1351
At what?
Because against each other, panther roflstomps comet.
I feel it doesn't. Comet is potent agains inf and panther. 1v1 panther will usually win but with very little health. One piat shot and its toast.
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
I feel it doesn't. Comet is potent agains inf and panther. 1v1 panther will usually win but with very little health. One piat shot and its toast.
What you feel doesn't matter. Stats are what matters. And if you learn to read stats you will realize that Panther stomps Comet due to more HP, less reload, more penetration and more range.
Comet
160 DPS
800 HP
average chance to pen Panther: 73%
5.9-6.4 reload
same accuracy 0.06/0.045/0.035
range 45
Panther
160 DPS
960 HP
5.2 - 5.6 reload
average chance to pen Comet: 82.8%
range 50
same accuracy 0.06/0.045/0.035
Livestreams
44 | |||||
8 | |||||
2 | |||||
1 | |||||
1 |
Ladders Top 10
-
#Steam AliasWL%Streak
- 1.829222.789+35
- 2.34857.859+13
- 3.587233.716+3
- 4.1095612.641+19
- 5.882398.689+4
- 6.280162.633+8
- 7.997646.607+1
- 8.379114.769+1
- 9.300113.726-1
- 10.717439.620+1
Replay highlight
- cblanco ★
- 보드카 중대
- VonManteuffel
- Heartless Jäger
Board Info
4 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Welcome our newest member, zowinfans
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM