Tank Hunter tactics change

You can see how it good...
Comparsion of bombing runs from Fragmentatio run topic

Yup. Frag bomb did slightly more damage but only cause it's way more concentrated. You can see PTAB covers a WAY larger area, which is why it's easier to hit with in actual in-game scenarios where tanks move

It's also why it's much better against KTs, Jagdtiger, elefant, than regular tiger. More surface area to hit

@ShadowLinkX37 I appreciate the video but couldn't disagree more about "kinda pathetic" comment. It's great against heavy TDs or multiple tanks that are too close

I am pleased with PTAB, well, if they become even a little better ... I do not mind.

IMHO tank hunter doc could be:
1. PTRS for cons (as now)
2. Stealth (as now)
3. Mark Target
4. Ptab (as now, but need buff, would be great if it inficlt engine damage like snare)
5. HEAT rounds like OKW have +30% damage +30% penetration but -10 range.

frick u are dense, the video I posted is of 2018

Edit: just checked all updates log, no mention of any changes for PTAB

LOL, okay champ. I already said it was missing from the patch notes.

What u don't understand of , I have checked all the logs ?

There are no mention of it , it's bugged

IMHO tank hunter doc could be:
1. PTRS for cons (as now)
2. Stealth (as now)
3. Mark Target
4. Ptab (as now, but need buff, would be great if it inficlt engine damage like snare)
5. HEAT rounds like OKW have +30% damage +30% penetration but -10 range.

PTRS cons lose molotovs, which makes their almost nonexistent AI even worse. They can't button which means they're not likely to kill anything above a Puma and generally less useful than Guards. Not allowing them to upgrade to 7 models means they get wiped easy in late game, especially because they usually have to leave cover to use grenades. Other than camo and AT nades, they're a downgrade. A Guard plus regular con is better. They would need their molotov back and either be able to upgrade to 7 models or button like Guards do in order to be viable.

The stealth ability also slows rotation speed. I don't know if this is intended, but it usually means that an SU 85 will not shoot and has to leave cover to rotate fast enough to hit a target. Usually by that time, it is flanked and will be lost. It is a straight downgrade from the camo that the JP4 gets.

PTRS cons lose molotovs, which makes their almost nonexistent AI even worse. They can't button which means they're not likely to kill anything above a Puma and generally less useful than Guards. Not allowing them to upgrade to 7 models means they get wiped easy in late game, especially because they usually have to leave cover to use grenades. Other than camo and AT nades, they're a downgrade. A Guard plus regular con is better. They would need their molotov back and either be able to upgrade to 7 models or button like Guards do in order to be viable.

The stealth ability also slows rotation speed. I don't know if this is intended, but it usually means that an SU 85 will not shoot and has to leave cover to rotate fast enough to hit a target. Usually by that time, it is flanked and will be lost. It is a straight downgrade from the camo that the JP4 gets.

You’re wrong, tank hunter conscripts are some of the best ones you’ll find if you use them properly. I would be jumping up for joy if the ptrs package was a stock upgrade.

The way to play them is to use them as what they are, ambush predators.

First you set up the trap, spam mines across a single diagonally stripped line (so as not to chain trigger but still cover the whole width.
Then you camo with hold fire.
You set a bait, either a sniper or a retreating low health squad.
When the light vehicle goes after it, you wait until it gets stunned, then you sprint at it and grenade assault it.

The only issue with the commander is that it relies on stock units for the late game, which cannot do the job, which is why I’m asking for the T34/85 to replace the ML20 to finally make this doctrine viable.

You’re wrong, tank hunter conscripts are some of the best ones you’ll find if you use them properly. I would be jumping up for joy if the ptrs package was a stock upgrade.

The way to play them is to use them as what they are, ambush predators.

First you set up the trap, spam mines across a single diagonally stripped line (so as not to chain trigger but still cover the whole width.
Then you camo with hold fire.
You set a bait, either a sniper or a retreating low health squad.
When the light vehicle goes after it, you wait until it gets stunned, then you sprint at it and grenade assault it.

The only issue with the commander is that it relies on stock units for the late game, which cannot do the job, which is why I’m asking for the T34/85 to replace the ML20 to finally make this doctrine viable.

Please reread my post. I said anything above a Puma. Those are easy to ambush and kill with PTRS cons.
I've taken over half health from a P4 with an ambush but would often lose a con if I tried to follow up due to them losing cover. I then don't have anything that can dive and finish tanks after the ambush. Out of the times I've tried them, the only time I managed to kill a P4 was once when I had a teammate with Guards, who buttoned the P4 so it couldn't back up fast enough. Even then, I nearly lost the cons.

If it was a stock upgrade, I'd always make one. They're great at snaring tanks. They'd still have some drawbacks including being the only AT infantry squad that loses its regular grenade.

So AT conscripts not being able to solo a p4 means they're not good enough? Are you kidding me?

If you "don't have anything that can dive" that's got nothing to do with the doctrine. The t34/76 is made for diving, and it should have no problem killing a half health engine snared p4

If you "don't have anything that can dive" that's got nothing to do with the doctrine. The t34/76 is made for diving, and it should have no problem killing a half health engine snared p4

Like hell it is. The Panther is made for diving, it has high speed, high health, high armor, high penetration, and a literal dive ability (blitz). The T-34-76 is lightly armored, lightly armed, average health'd, marginally faster than average/shower than Panther, and no super mobility abilities.

Like hell it is. The Panther is made for diving, it has high speed, high health, high armor, high penetration, and a literal dive ability (blitz). The T-34-76 is lightly armored, lightly armed, average health'd, marginally faster than average/shower than Panther, and no super mobility abilities.

Wtf are you talking about? T34/76 is the best tank to dive with for one reason, cost. It's disposable and spammable. Dive after rocket arty, low health tanks repairing, heavy TDs for flanks, that's what it's for

Diving with Panthers is a horrible idea, way too expensive. You run into snares or mines and you just sent a huge fuel investment down the drain. Not to mention all that armor is pretty meaningless if you're diving behind the lines. That's just asking for rear armor shots

Btw I hate to break it to you, but the soviets don't have access to Panthers, so wtf does this have to do with tank hunter tactics?

Wtf are you talking about? T34/76 is the best tank to dive with for one reason, cost. It's disposable and spammable. Dive after rocket arty, low health tanks repairing, heavy TDs for flanks, that's what it's for.

Wrong. Nothing is completely disposable in Company of Heroes, the game rewards unit preservation, and punishes unit losses. That's why squads gain veterancy and are cheaper to reinforce than to replace. That's why tanks are free to repair but a total loss if destroyed.

If you rush down a Panther with 2 T-34-76's and it kills one and gets away, you are down 100 fuel and he is down nothing. You have to replace your tank and he's getting another, putting him firmly in the lead. You are harshly punished for losing your tank, it is not disposable.

Diving with Panthers is a horrible idea, way too expensive. You run into snares or mines and you just sent a huge fuel investment down the drain. Not to mention all that armor is pretty meaningless if you're diving behind the lines. That's just asking for rear armor shots.

Diving is always risky, but there is no better vehicle for diving than the Panther. It has the mobility, survivability, and lethality to get the job done and get back out. A T-34-76 on the other hand is slow (compared to panther), vulnerable, and lacks the punch to kill anything quickly unless it's diving for Panzerwerfers.

Btw I hate to break it to you, but the soviets don't have access to Panthers, so wtf does this have to do with tank hunter tactics?

I only brought it up because it's the undeniable dive champion. The T-34 is barely a contestant here. All German tanks are superior at dives due to their superior armor, guns, and especially Blitz/Combat Blitz, an ability that exists for the express purpose of diving.

Wrong. Nothing is completely disposable in Company of Heroes, the game rewards unit preservation, and punishes unit losses. That's why squads gain veterancy and are cheaper to reinforce than to replace. That's why tanks are free to repair but a total loss if destroyed.

If you rush down a Panther with 2 T-34-76's and it kills one and gets away, you are down 100 fuel and he is down nothing. You have to replace your tank and he's getting another, putting him firmly in the lead. You are harshly punished for losing your tank, it is not disposable.

In 1v1 maybe. I play mostly 2v2 AT, sacrificing t34s happens all the time. And it's 90 fuel, not 100. A panther is 5 fuel less than 2 t34s. Even if I lose my tank, as long as I kill one of yours its pretty much always a good trade for me, mines cheaper

Panther is more mobile? Not really, Panther has a whopping 0.1 more max speed and acceleration (almost no difference), while the t34 has a significantly faster rotation rate (36 vs 30)

And blitz gets used to run away way more often than anything else. Usually to run away from bad decisions like being too aggressive...

I only brought it up because it's the undeniable dive champion. The T-34 is barely a contestant here. All German tanks are superior at dives due to their superior armor, guns, and especially Blitz/Combat Blitz, an ability that exists for the express purpose of diving.

That still leaves your argument 100% irrelevant to the topic... T34s help tank hunter tactics a lot. Ram is a great diving ability as well, especially when you have something like PTAB to call-in. Can you try to actually discuss the topic?

Can the balance team please comment on whether they would even consider this? There’s a lot of people that support this change.

I'd rather see ML-20 stay here, the doctrine doesn't have anything to push against stalemate, you could easily outcamp it and PTRS cons will obliterate any vehicle that dares to get in their range with nade assault.

I'd rather see ML-20 stay here, the doctrine doesn't have anything to push against stalemate, you could easily outcamp it and PTRS cons will obliterate any vehicle that dares to get in their range with nade assault.

PTAB is actually not bad against structures. But it's a costly way to fight against structures/defensive players so I think you're still right here

The howy does also work as bait, which was the initial reason they added it

PTAB is actually not bad against structures. But it's a costly way to fight against structures/defensive players so I think you're still right here

The howy does also work as bait, which was the initial reason they added it

No no one need such costly bait, especially in 1vs1. Doctrine must have abilities that reflect commander, not any "bait".
It's pure AT doctrine and abilities must reflect it. IF Ml-20 could fire to tanks as pak43, it could be "bait". Mark target instead ml-20 will fit theme of commander better.

No no one need such costly bait, especially in 1vs1. Doctrine must have abilities that reflect commander, not any "bait".
It's pure AT doctrine and abilities must reflect it. IF Ml-20 could fire to tanks as pak43, it could be "bait". Mark target instead ml-20 will fit theme of commander better.

Explain KV-1 in conscript support tactics then.

Or anti tank overwatch in NKVD RIFLE doctrine.

Sometimes abilities that function and have a purpose are better then slamming whatever you feel should go for the doctrine.

It's pure AT doctrine and abilities must reflect it. IF Ml-20 could fire to tanks as pak43, it could be "bait".

No then they would be avoiding it with tanks altogether. The point is you setup a howy, and use the rest of the doctrine to ambush things that dive after it. You have mines, AT cons, ambush tactics, etc

The only thing diving it would be the dive bomb considering amount of axis commanders with offmaps and recon noone would be driving a tank to destroy ML-20 directly in first place