Poll: How are grens after the rifle buff?

Grens are more than fine now. Rifles are just a tad too good. For the love of God don't touch everything again xd!

OP, i think in general, that if a big change goes unnoticed (gren vet change for ex.) that it might been a right move all along.

I thought the volks change happend before the penals. The maxim nerf in its golden days revaeled maxims kept stg volks in check.

But i could be wrong about the time when penals got changed.

Broken faction design from day 1 which up to this day we are still trying to fix.
-Volks didn't force Penals to change. Penals were bad since after we left release of the game basically. Whether we like it or not, the whole Soviet/Easter front design of teching and building vs just unlocking tech which came with new factions, forced the status quo we have now.

-Current Volks situation is a compound problem.
OKW didn't get access to support weapons (mg34 doctrinal and ISG even more crappier than now against buildings but insane at sniping models) and struggled against garrison. They even had reduced munition income which made use of nades more restrictive.
While FHT was great at those times, by the nature of the unit it wouldn't be as good as today P2 (which was on the latest tier) against maxim spam.
Volks schreck was decent AI and let the unit vet easily. Volks blob kept vehicles in checked (even without snares) while late game vehicles sealed the deal for OKW. Basically it was a race on whether you hold ground and win late game or you were rushed down early on.

1- Volks are given a lava nade, because normal nade doesn't dislodge buildings. Stuka is too restrictive and hit or miss for the job.
2- Rewind Rework time. 100% resource OKW steamrolling on the first days.
3- Volks get their schreck removed. They are given a faust + STG upgrade. This made Conscript obsolete against them (even more than before). They are still screwed against maxim spam, even with whole rework,
with STG + lava nade and access to faster P2.

At this point is on which Penals get reworked into Penals OP with flamethrower.

Volks are the way they are because:
1- We are trying to balance 5 factions in an assymetrical game.
2- Only OH get's access in a timely fashion to units and tools to deal with any problem. Other factions are limited by field presence, tools and time and resources to acquire those. This means they will actually have to brute force it in some or other way.

This makes balancing grens far easier than Volks who have to "heavy lift" and be able to tackle down, Conscripts, Penals, Maxims, Rifles and IS.

FUN FACT, THE FLAME NADE is bugged and only does damage on the base floor so even vs garrison is not good

FUN FACT, THE FLAME NADE is bugged and only does damage on the base floor so even vs garrison is not good

I tought this was intentional ?

FUN FACT, THE FLAME NADE is bugged and only does damage on the base floor so even vs garrison is not good

Placebo effect. People will still leave the building

It means that regardless of rifle or gren state, grens are supposed to lose at all distances and they do, rifle buff didn't changed anything here.

I wish you could say the same about cons without flipping a table over.

On topic, i've seen grens doing fine, the close range buff for riflemen was not meant to make them OP but to assure their close range dominance in early game. They still have a hard time vs assgrens

Because rifles were buffed and grens and rifles were fine, volks were the offending unit yet they barely got changed. So it may be likely that rifles are too good vs grens.

The Riflemen buff only affects close range. Grenadiers want to be fighting at long range, so if they take good engagements the buff doesn't affect them much.

If your Grenadiers are taking bad engagements, they're probably going to lose regardless.

Placebo effect. People will still leave the building

not if u know it , that’s why I always laugh when the okw player says that maxim are op cause o stayed in the house

one of the issues with "new" riflemen is that they are better vs pioneers and thus better at flanking HMG supported by pioneers.

And that lead to less support weapons and more brute force.

one of the issues with "new" riflemen is that they are better vs pioneers and thus better at flanking HMG supported by pioneers.

And that lead to less support weapons and more brute force.

That engagement ends with a retreating MG regardless of the Rifleman buff.

That engagement ends with a retreating MG regardless of the Rifleman buff.

Not really Pioneer where buffed for that reason. They could stop a single riflemen that flank an hmg, now it is more difficult.

"Pioneers

We felt that pioneer damage output was under-performing and proving ineffective in combat.

Near accuracy increased from 0.403 to 0.463
Mid accuracy increased from 0.23 to 0.27
Population reduced from 6 to 5"

Yea it’s not like other faction get any perks .... no tank crew 6 mean support, major , etc are not faction perks

Major and vehicle crew equals obers and KT lul

one of the issues with "new" riflemen is that they are better vs pioneers and thus better at flanking HMG supported by pioneers.

And that lead to less support weapons and more brute force.

Or you could like, I don't know, use actual infantry to protect your flank? You wouldn't expect combat engies to singlehandedly beat a flanking grenadier or volk squad right?

Or or, and stay with me on this one, it's a a big one, but you could try not getting flanked.

Or you could like, I don't know, use actual infantry to protect your flank? You wouldn't expect combat engies to singlehandedly beat a flanking grenadier or volk squad right?

Or or, and stay with me on this one, it's a a big one, but you could try not getting flanked.

Pioneer have synergy with the MG42 and that is way the get the extra sight radius. And the where where buffed so that hey can fight flanking infatry at point blank. Else give them K98 CE style.

Being flanked means that one's opponents uses one infantry to draw fire and another to flank so not being flanked is not really an option.

And yea grenadiers are actually terrible at flanking and unless they use a rifle-grande the enemy HMG can reposition or simply retreat.

Pioneer have synergy with the MG42 and that is way the get the extra sight radius. And the where where buffed so that hey can fight flanking infatry at point blank. Else give them K98 CE style.

Being flanked means that one's opponents uses one infantry to draw fire and another to flank so not being flanked is not really an option.

And yea grenadiers are actually terrible at flanking and unless they use a rifle-grande the enemy HMG can reposition or simply retreat.

They do still do pretty well against rifles at close range, especially if the rifles are running around trying to dodge a 42 arc the whole time. But again, expecting pios to always body flanking rifles is a bit unrealistic. That's what you have real infantry for.

If there's 2 squads vs an HMG and a pio then it's a pretty fair fight and whoever has better position and micro will win. That's a pretty good deal for a starter unit that's like 26 mp to reinforce.

Yeah, a 240mp squad with a long range focus (bolt action rifles) and access to support weapons and sniper is worse at flanking than a 5 man squad that has to be the whole army for 5 minutes. Who would have thought. Also, if you think grens are bad at flanking, you should try sections lmao.

They do still do pretty well against rifles at close range, especially if the rifles are running around trying to dodge a 42 arc the whole time. But again, expecting pios to always body flanking rifles is a bit unrealistic. That's what you have real infantry for.

What I have said is they do allot worse.

"WEHRMACHT

Pioneers
Our aim is to encourage positional play and combined arms, which the Wehrmacht faction tends to reply on more than any other faction. With an increase in sight (albeit still lower than pathfinders) we are allowing Pioneers to help spot for their HMGs and other support teams.

Sight increased from 35 to 42"

Again pioneer received buff in both sight and DPS so that they can support HMGs. This balance got effect the most by the changes to rifles close DPS since the ability of pioneer to fight riflemen at point blank was marginal.

If there's 2 squads vs an HMG and a pio then it's a pretty fair fight and whoever has better position and micro will win. That's a pretty good deal for a starter unit that's like 26 mp to reinforce.

Again my point is that the worse support weapons become the more people will use infatry with brute force.
Reinforcement for pioneer is 25.

Yeah, a 240mp squad with a long range focus (bolt action rifles) and access to support weapons and sniper is worse at flanking than a 5 man squad that has to be the whole army for 5 minutes. Who would have thought. Also, if you think grens are bad at flanking, you should try sections lmao.

You seem to suggest that with your grenadier analogy. Tommies are quite irreverent to the USF Ostheer much up.