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How are Infantrysections since patch?

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distrofio
6 Oct 2019, 23:19 PM
#121
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 20:55 PMPereat


Every time you post (stug life) I ask myself are you misleading people on purpose or just yourself bad at math? The claim you state is that axis pay more for tech.

I love people that try mental gimnastics and fail miserably.

Firstly, OKW hasnt built T1 in your calculations. Witch is simply wrong, that doesnt count as FULL TECH.

Second, VOID COMPARATIONS ARE NONESENSE. Literally, who playing UKF would not get an AEC?, or either bolster or grenades?. The argument is so invalid it should have its own thread of things that should never been said again.

Third and final, you dont need FULL TECH to get grenades or mainline infantry skills unlocked, therefore pointless to mention, full techs involves heavy tanks timings but not grenades. Probably allied get cheaper tools than axis, if you take account how many squads benefit from the side tech itself.

To mislead people you just twist facts like you just did, to let people know the game you show real stats with the complexity within them. But at least i had fun debunking your post.
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LoopDloop
6 Oct 2019, 23:33 PM
#122
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 23:19 PMdistrofio

Third and final, you dont need FULL TECH to get grenades or mainline infantry skills unlocked, therefore pointless to mention, full techs involves heavy tanks timings but not grenades. Probably allied get cheaper tools than axis, if you take account how many squads benefit from the side tech itself.

You can't even compare allied mainlines' sidetechs to axis mainlines' sidetechs because the latter doesn't exist. You don't have to pay anything beyond normal tech requirements (as you progress normally along your tech tree to unlock more units like leigs or luchs or 222 or tanks, to define it plainly for you) to get access to grenades and stgs, mg42s, fausts, schrecks, etc. There are no sidetech requirements for axis so how allied sidetechs are cheaper than the nonexistant sidetechs for axis infantry is beyond me.
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distrofio
7 Oct 2019, 00:54 AM
#123
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 23:33 PMLoopDloop

You can't even compare allied mainlines' sidetechs to axis mainlines' sidetechs because the latter doesn't exist. You don't have to pay anything beyond normal tech requirements...

*Laughs in UKF cheapest full tech cost of all factions

Simply wrong, but lets start with simple concepts and then end up with the real point.

Axis might not have so called "sidetechs" but they have to build their T1/T2/T3/T4, nor UKF or USF have to, SU combines tech cost and building cost altogether. If i were not to build T1 and T2 as OST i cant have pfausts, the same thing as USF that has to pay a one time sidetech to enable their grenades.

Sidenotes: SU can skip either T1/T2
USF gets free squads with teching
UKF can fast tech or invest in depth Tier techs (bofors/Aec)

Both axis faction have to pay a more expensive price just to tech up, specially from T0-T1/T2, all allied factions either pay 10/20/35 when OH pays 40+15 or OKW with 15+25/45.
Axis sidetechs exists, bundled with a more expensive linear teching and with buildings costs, if you want to start a very detailed discussion, then you should include all the details to be fair.
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Pereat
7 Oct 2019, 10:45 AM
#124
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 23:19 PMdistrofio

I love people that try mental gimnastics and fail miserably.


And yet now its you doing it.

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 23:19 PMdistrofio

Firstly, OKW hasnt built T1 in your calculations. Witch is simply wrong, that doesn't count as FULL TECH.


Never said FULL tech. Calculated End-tech - rushing to last (strongest) units. Clearly stating that both axis get there cheaper as opposed to many unfounded claims that its otherwise.


jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 23:19 PMdistrofio
Second, VOID COMPARATIONS ARE NONESENSE. Literally, who playing UKF would not get an AEC?, or either bolster or grenades?. The argument is so invalid it should have its own thread of things that should never been said again.


What people would and would not get is not the argument here. No one is bound to build AEC to get to Comets and these are just options. Nor is anyone bound to build T3 for OH to get to panthers. Claims like yours are the exact nonsense the forums are filled with to defend axis.


jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 23:19 PMdistrofio

Third and final, you don't need FULL TECH to get grenades or mainline infantry skills unlocked, therefore pointless to mention, full techs involves heavy tanks timings but not grenades. Probably allied get cheaper tools than axis, if you take account how many squads benefit from the side tech itself.


That's exactly why I made a second calculation to the point I think is the common denominator for the 3 factions since they have a asymmetrical design: second tier unlocked and granades + weapons unlocked. That
again shows that it cost axis LESS to get to this point. I think this point is relevant to the IS debate as we see how UKFs mainline troops are made more costly and are now being standardized to perform on par with much cheaper infantry that has no extra costs.


jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 23:19 PMdistrofio

To mislead people you just twist facts like you just did, to let people know the game you show real stats with the complexity within them. But at least i had fun debunking your post.


IMHO you failed at arguing the simplest of statements. Reread what I wrote in the first post or have a friend help you and then argue the things I say and not what you imagined I said.
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achpawel
7 Oct 2019, 11:00 AM
#125
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jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 10:45 AMPereat

.


I'm sorry but you miscalculated everything hoorribly. Ostheer, for example, has to tech so much more. From what I see You decided that all buildings ost has to erect are optional, which means that you can only play with engineers and mg42, panzergrens and call in infantry. It is impossible to do it and win against even much less skilled opponents. Partialy you also proved that there are sidetechs for ostheer with your post. The only difference is that with ostheer you sidetech to get units while with usf, for example, you sidetech to get upgrades. Maybe you should play other facions more?
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    Pereat
    7 Oct 2019, 11:18 AM
    #126
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 11:00 AMachpawel

    I'm sorry but you miscalculated everything hoorribly. Ostheer, for example, has to tech so much more. From what I see You decided that all buildings ost has to erect are optional, which means that you can only play with engineers and mg42, panzergrens and call in infantry. It is impossible to do it and win against even much less skilled opponents. Partialy you also proved that there are sidetechs for ostheer with your post. The only difference is that with ostheer you sidetech to get units while with usf, for example, you sidetech to get upgrades. Maybe you should play other facions more?


    Can you cite more specifically. For the end tech rush I only counted the buildings you need. I agree that leaves OH with only pios, Mgs and panzergrens but I have encountered such rushes to ostwind so it doable.

    The other calculation I made to T2 I again disregarded the T2 building for OH since it is now made even more optional as panzergrens can be built from headquarters. An argument can be made that OH T2 tech counts only with the building present but then it would only seem fair to add the cost of unlocking AEC for UKF as well. So the fact that its cheaper for axis doesn't change - we just add more variables and would make the price gap in axis favor to the OKW T2 even greater.
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    Stug life
    7 Oct 2019, 13:04 PM
    #127
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 11:18 AMPereat


    https://www.coh2.org/topic/96750/redirect-thread-faction-teching-and-timing

    here all the calculation u want
    katitof-2018
    Katitof-2018
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    distrofio
    7 Oct 2019, 13:43 PM
    #128
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 10:45 AMPereat

    And yet now its you doing it.

    I see a lot of smoke but no fire, a lot of words but pointless, i see someone arguing about a theoretical match involving no units at all, a spreadsheet warrior with no argument. Axis and allied techs are just different and prices involved are not comparable, but as always some fanboi thinks the grass is greener on the other side and that is enough to start a twisted reasoning.

    IS nerfs were simply a consequence of metagame. There is no need to blame it on the tech system. Even if there are unbalances in the tech system, those are just ment to force momentum on the factions itself or the game.

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    Pereat
    7 Oct 2019, 14:07 PM
    #129
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 13:04 PMStug life
    https://www.coh2.org/topic/96750/redirect-thread-faction-teching-and-timing

    here all the calculation u want


    Yes, those are the number I used.

    In your own calculations:
    OH: Full 1070/235
    OKW: Full 1100/265
    UKF: Full 1360/270

    How in the hell do you time and time again claim that axis have more expensive tech. Your own numbers. OH<OKW<UKF . Any way you look at it. Total of all techs - axis is cheaper. Rush to last tech - axis is cheaper. T2 - axis is cheaper.
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    Pereat
    7 Oct 2019, 14:09 PM
    #130
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 13:43 PMdistrofio

    I see a lot of smoke but no fire, a lot of words but pointless, i see someone arguing about a theoretical match involving no units at all, a spreadsheet warrior with no argument. Axis and allied techs are just different and prices involved are not comparable, but as always some fanboi thinks the grass is greener on the other side and that is enough to start a twisted reasoning.

    IS nerfs were simply a consequence of metagame. There is no need to blame it on the tech system. Even if there are unbalances in the tech system, those are just ment to force momentum on the factions itself or the game.



    Can't win with math, win with poems. Good one.
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    Grumpy
    7 Oct 2019, 15:11 PM
    #131
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 14:07 PMPereat


    Yes, those are the number I used.

    In your own calculations:
    OH: Full 1070/235
    OKW: Full 1100/265
    UKF: Full 1360/270

    How in the hell do you time and time again claim that axis have more expensive tech. Your own numbers. OH<OKW<UKF . Any way you look at it. Total of all techs - axis is cheaper. Rush to last tech - axis is cheaper. T2 - axis is cheaper.


    You'll go around and around all day with this. I did for a few posts on the other thread. The absolute numbers show Axis is cheaper. The quickest route to heavies is also Axis (see Sanders posts on thread for Pershing Timing Needs a Nerf).

    USF's full numbers are 1240/270, but includes 3 officers so it's cheaper on manpower and worse on fuel. I wish they would balance it out. Even just changing the officers to 280/25 would help. They'd have to make the sidetech for M20 take longer or it would arrive too early.
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    Vipper
    7 Oct 2019, 15:35 PM
    #132
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    Ostheer have one of the worst tech system which is linear, includes battles phases and building. Ostheer do not have an advantage due to their tech no matter how much spin one tries to put on it.
    :)
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    Pereat
    7 Oct 2019, 16:47 PM
    #133
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 15:35 PMVipper
    Ostheer have one of the worst tech system which is linear, includes battles phases and building. Ostheer do not have an advantage due to their tech no matter how much spin one tries to put on it.


    No need for spins - Ostheer compared to UKF has cheaper tech, cheaper mainline inf units and more flexibility in tech (being able to forgo buildings). UKF used to have strong inf :D
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    Vipper
    7 Oct 2019, 17:13 PM
    #134
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 16:47 PMPereat


    No need for spins - Ostheer compared to UKF has cheaper tech, cheaper mainline inf units and more flexibility in tech (being able to forgo buildings). UKF used to have strong inf :D

    Ostheer do not have an advantage over UKF because of tech.

    In addition UKF get FRP/Mortar pit/17p/1 Base gun/2 Base guns/ Anvil/Hammer perks with tech.
    :)
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    Support Sapper
    7 Oct 2019, 17:43 PM
    #135
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 17:13 PMVipper

    Ostheer do not have an advantage over UKF because of tech.

    In addition UKF get FRP/Mortar pit/17p/1 Base gun/2 Base guns/ Anvil/Hammer perks with tech.

    FRP? Yeah. But why you mention pit and 17 pounder ???
    My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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    Pereat
    7 Oct 2019, 18:07 PM
    #136
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 17:13 PMVipper

    Ostheer do not have an advantage over UKF because of tech.


    Saying things you want to be true doesn't make for a good argument. I have laid out the numbers why Ost have an advantage by having significantly cheaper tech. A point I defended in multiple posts detailing how their tech is cheaper every step of the way. If you disagree - explain.

    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 17:13 PMVipper

    In addition UKF get FRP/Mortar pit/17p/1 Base gun/2 Base guns/ Anvil/Hammer perks with tech.


    The perks you mentioned here are static units (Mortar pit/17p) that have a price associated with it, so not perks. Anvil/Hammer perks are mostly things Ost have by default - units with bundle nades, vehicle blitz and so on. Base arty is costly and pails in comparison to rocket arty.
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    ProxyFox
    7 Oct 2019, 18:55 PM
    #137
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    Tbh Tommies now are horrible, they die when out of cover too quickly, thier dps is much worse than before.
    Basically you have to hug the cover now as Brit which is very very bad as the enemy can actively move around and attack wherever they want, being passive is the worse situation to be especially in team game as your teamate will have to take a beating whilst you can do little about it.
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    achpawel
    7 Oct 2019, 18:58 PM
    #138
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    jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 11:18 AMPereat


    Can you cite more specifically. For the end tech rush I only counted the buildings you need. I agree that leaves OH with only pios, Mgs and panzergrens but I have encountered such rushes to ostwind so it doable.

    The other calculation I made to T2 I again disregarded the T2 building for OH since it is now made even more optional as panzergrens can be built from headquarters. An argument can be made that OH T2 tech counts only with the building present but then it would only seem fair to add the cost of unlocking AEC for UKF as well. So the fact that its cheaper for axis doesn't change - we just add more variables and would make the price gap in axis favor to the OKW T2 even greater.


    I find it all very interesting :)

    TBH I don't know why it is like that (all tech included it really is more you pay for total tech). Funnily enough, I find playing with UKF so much easier than ostheer. Ostheer on steroids sort of, and it transfers to my results with them. Maybe their tech is both a bit more expensive but their units are just better and more powerful. It could be also connected with the fact that recently ostheer t2 building got cheaper to buff them. Maybe it is also because they get those super extra abilities like artillery for teching and then their special ammo with specialization or stuff like gammon for choosing hammer, bolstered infantry can be bought with more squad members, etc. I guess this is the key at least in relation to ostheer. I'm not sure how to compare it to OKW. UK maybe gets lots of good stuff for teching, unlike any other army. Those healing sections, extra abilities on everything they have, even sniper shooting vehicles and now buffed to couter snipe better. Maybe that's it.
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      Stug life
      7 Oct 2019, 19:01 PM
      #139
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      Posts: 4474

      jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 14:07 PMPereat


      Yes, those are the number I used.

      In your own calculations:
      OH: Full 1070/235
      OKW: Full 1100/265
      UKF: Full 1360/270
      How in the hell do you time and time again claim that axis have more expensive tech. Your own numbers. OH<OKW<UKF . Any way you look at it. Total of all techs - axis is cheaper. Rush to last tech - axis is cheaper. T2 - axis is cheaper.
      How in the hell do you time and time again claim that axis have more expensive tech. Your own numbers. OH<OKW<UKF . Any way you look at it. Total of all techs - axis is cheaper. Rush to last tech - axis is cheaper. T2 - axis is cheaper.
      want to see something cool ?

      Okw 1100mp/275f

      1255/225f


      How in the hell do you time and time again claim that allies have more expensive tech. Your own numbers.su<USF< Ukf<Okw . Any way you look at it. Total of all techs - allies is cheaper. Rush to last tech - allies is cheaper. T2 - allies is cheaper.





      Spoiler, su and ost are both cheap cause they need to build and get no free stuff like powercreeps dlc, when u look at cost su and ost are balanced against eachother , while west faction are balanced against eachother
      katitof-2018
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      Jilet
      7 Oct 2019, 19:16 PM
      #140
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      jump backJump back to quoted post7 Oct 2019, 19:01 PMStug life

      Spoiler, su and ost are both cheap cause they need to build and get no free stuff like powercreeps dlc, when u look at cost su and ost are balanced against eachother , while west faction are balanced against eachother



      This.

      For the topic : Infantry sections can use a MP or reinforcement time reduction. They absolutely terrorize when upgunned and vetted -every infantry can do that you might say well Tommies have a higher ceiling-
      Grens are finally good.
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