How are Infantrysections since patch?

If bren can be re-profiled to be solid event when using only one, then bolster upgrade sure can take a slot and required purchase for each squad. But if medic and pyro take a slot then they should have more bonuses.

medic alreay imo is potent enough. it allows for you teal any and all infantry while on the move for a 1 time cost. once upon a time healing in general was at a premium and meant sacrificing something
as for pyro i think smoke nades might be an attractive addition seeing as usk lacks smoke outside the pit before tanks hit. this would work thematically as well as then pyro tommies would be able to scout, approach and force off enemy mgs which is a skill the faction lacks heavily.

the idea is that each choice is attractive and a player will likley want at least one of each if possible (not really feasible to have that manny tommies , so it would be a real decision for the player)

At which power level you aim exactly? I mean, how much potential should IS have early-mid-lategame?

I dont have access to latest stat so i cant give any number.

1. They can become 5 men squad irrespective of a chosen doctrine.
2. They can be upgraded with convenient healing that heals everybody around on the move for free.
3. They can be upgraded with cool artillery abitity and better sight.
4. They are repurchased as 5 men squads without additional cost after bolster (it includes sappers).
5. They can be upgraded with up to two bren lmgs.
6. They can get up to two piats becoming an at squad.
7. They can build cover such as sandbags and trenches.
8. They can be upgraded with close range grenade and later with gammons.
9. They get special bonus in cover.
10. Through commanders they can get even more powerful upgrades that are unmatched by any infantry upgrades on the axis side.
11. They can be supported with t0 mg and durable light vehicle.

Are you sure the unit is underperforming?

1. They can become 5 men squad irrespective of a chosen doctrine.
2. They can be upgraded with convenient healing that heals everybody around on the move for free.
3. They can be upgraded with cool artillery abitity and better sight.
4. They are repurchased as 5 men squads without additional cost after bolster (it includes sappers).
5. They can be upgraded with up to two bren lmgs.
6. They can get up to two piats becoming an at squad.
7. They can build cover such as sandbags and trenches.
8. They can be upgraded with close range grenade and later with gammons.
9. They get special bonus in cover.
10. Through commanders they can get even more powerful upgrades that are unmatched by any infantry upgrades on the axis side.
11. They can be supported with t0 mg and durable light vehicle.

Are you sure the unit is underperforming?

1. They underperform by a lot as a 4 man so bolster is a must, or they have to be 5 man default.
2. Beside medical supply, UKF have the most expensive medic bunker and dont have access to mobile reinforce.
3. "Cool" artillery which can only hit static target as big as a building and require the unit to be deadly close to target.
4. Their base price and reinforce price is calculated around being a 5 mab squad, not 4 man.
5. A single bren is wost than 1 mg42 so 2 bren is required to bring then up to equal, more expensive but not significantly better.
6. They dont have buil in snare and giving them PIAT is a waste, sacrifice AI power.
7. They dont have T0 engineer unit to buil cover for them at the stat and being fucked without cover.
8. Tommy's nade is standard frag nade and has a minimum range. Gamon bomb again only work with static target.
9. They get debufff out of cover and close to non existence moving dps while the faction doesn't have a cqb - moving dps unit to fill the gap.
10. If you mean assault sections then good new is they is they just about ass gren lv but cone latter.
11. LOL Universal carrier is durable.

Are you sure you fully understand all the thing you are talking?

(...)

Are you sure you fully understand all the thing you are talking?

I do understand, no worries

I just feel that 280 manpower for such versatile squads with all the abilities and possible upgrade paths seems ok.

Bren durability from t0 perspective of course. I don't really buy arguments saying that equiping at weapons is sacrificing - it is more about adapting to your opponent army composition. Ostheer has to 'sacrifice' more expensive squads, for example. Generally I don't agree that balance team hurt them too much. UK was much too overperforming. Just have to learn to support you troops. Now, for a change, USF is a bit overboard not UK

I do understand, no worries

Yeah, so i will say that we have different aproach on the same subject but not necessary one of us have to be all wrong.

I just feel that 280 manpower for such versatile squads with all the abilities and possible upgrade paths seems ok.

Dont get me wrong, i nevr deni the fact that tommy have great potential with their upgrade. My issue is how to spead that potential out for every stage of the game sine late game tommy is kind of ok but early game is not good. With that in mind, I'm very welcome the cost reduction to 270 of the new patch . 5% acc bonus at vet 3 is good, too, giving them a little more edge against late game elite like ober but not going to be OP, i think, since at that stage of the game you already have various tools like specialised armor or rocket arry to counter such a bren blob.

Bren durability from t0 perspective of course.

I give you that, For a T0 unit, UC's durability is acceptable,Yeah, but not outstanding by any mean. Still, It depend on overprice upgrades to do the job while having to fulfill the gap that faction lack the basis tools for.

I don't really buy arguments saying that equiping at weapons is sacrificing - it is more about adapting to your opponent army composition. Ostheer has to 'sacrifice' more expensive squads, for example.

Yeah, true.

Generally I don't agree that balance team hurt them too much. UK was much too overperforming. Just have to learn to support you troops. Now, for a change, USF is a bit overboard not UK

Sure, but when thing come to supporting mainline, UKF struggle with lacking basis tools (again this issue).

1. They underperform by a lot as a 4 man so bolster is a must, or they have to be 5 man default.
2. Beside medical supply, UKF have the most expensive medic bunker and dont have access to mobile reinforce.
3. "Cool" artillery which can only hit static target as big as a building and require the unit to be deadly close to target.
4. Their base price and reinforce price is calculated around being a 5 mab squad, not 4 man.
5. A single bren is wost than 1 mg42 so 2 bren is required to bring then up to equal, more expensive but not significantly better.
6. They dont have buil in snare and giving them PIAT is a waste, sacrifice AI power.
7. They dont have T0 engineer unit to buil cover for them at the stat and being fucked without cover.
8. Tommy's nade is standard frag nade and has a minimum range. Gamon bomb again only work with static target.
9. They get debufff out of cover and close to non existence moving dps while the faction doesn't have a cqb - moving dps unit to fill the gap.
10. If you mean assault sections then good new is they is they just about ass gren lv but cone latter.
11. LOL Universal carrier is durable.

Are you sure you fully understand all the thing you are talking?

1 nope they are better gren for 270 mp now
2 ur point ? other factions don't even have aoe healing , IS get infinite uses after 30 mun for an aoe mobile heal
3 like any off map ? it's literally an in map a call in for cheap but u need to get in range to use it
4 nope their base price is calculated by their 4 men squad, they are the best long range main line in th game
5 >not significantly better
bren has 2 less dps at long range and 1 less at close range, so when u have 2 bren u get 5 more dps at long and 3 at close
6 not having a snare does not make them useless or pgren by ur logic would not exist, or RE zook or sturm pio or pfusi
7 but why both trenches and green cover ? are u saying it's mandatory ? why rifle don't have them or volks ?
8 still a very fucking good nade for a long range unit
9 this might surprise u but RE are very good at cqc and have about the same dps as ass green while moving (5 vs 4)
10 they are much better than ass gren , they have Thompson too, do ass green get some stg ?
11 compare to any t0 light vehicle even doc one, it has the most armor and has the best lmg

1. They underperform by a lot as a 4 man so bolster is a must, or they have to be 5 man default.
2. Beside medical supply, UKF have the most expensive medic bunker and dont have access to mobile reinforce.
3. "Cool" artillery which can only hit static target as big as a building and require the unit to be deadly close to target.
4. Their base price and reinforce price is calculated around being a 5 mab squad, not 4 man.
5. A single bren is wost than 1 mg42 so 2 bren is required to bring then up to equal, more expensive but not significantly better.
6. They dont have buil in snare and giving them PIAT is a waste, sacrifice AI power.
7. They dont have T0 engineer unit to buil cover for them at the stat and being fucked without cover.
8. Tommy's nade is standard frag nade and has a minimum range. Gamon bomb again only work with static target.
9. They get debufff out of cover and close to non existence moving dps while the faction doesn't have a cqb - moving dps unit to fill the gap.
10. If you mean assault sections then good new is they is they just about ass gren lv but cone latter.
11. LOL Universal carrier is durable.

Are you sure you fully understand all the thing you are talking?

1. Cons suck but have to wait until T4 for bolster or pay in T3. Tommies have it much better.
2. Their medic bunker gives them mobile reinforce. They’re designed to be a more static faction.
3. Mg in building? Drop smoke, drop flare, building deleted. Smoke exists, use it.
4. That’s because everyone bolsters as soon as possible.
5. They don’t need to be better than an mg42. Grens are 4 men with an mg42, tommies are 5 men with a bren. 2 brens are absolute overkill and why the hell do tommies need to be better than grens in the first place?
6. This has been discussed to death. Giving sappers snares has revitalized the faction.
7. Most of the early game is spent capping. By the time you start dealing with coordinated assaults you should have sappers.
8. Absolutely nothing wrong with a standard grenade.
9. This has been the case for a while but the balance team refuses to remove the cover rof mechanic.
11. The UC’s competition in terms of T0 vehicles is the Kubel, the 221 and the Jeep. By far the most durable and has the best upgrades. Don’t you dare say it was better before the armour nerf, it was absolute cancer to deal with when facing ukf.

I don't get the point Tommies underperform while being marginally better than Grens and Volks while in cover and still being better at long range when out of cover.

I also don't get the point while Vickers is a really good MG (not super suppress like MG42 but super snipy DPS with a really good arc) and T0 anti team weapon car, people still trying to play only with Tommies and saying "gReNs gOt mG42 tO suPPoRt tHeM".

Just give this faction a CQC upgrade without a doctrine and bring Tommies to Cons-Gren levels. Relying only on the Tommies justifies their power level compared to other mainlines which is simply unhealty design.

1 nope they are better gren for 270 mp now
2 ur point ? other factions don't even have aoe healing , IS get infinite uses after 30 mun for an aoe mobile heal
3 like any off map ? it's literally an in map a call in for cheap but u need to get in range to use it
4 nope their base price is calculated by their 4 men squad, they are the best long range main line in th game
5 >not significantly better
bren has 2 less dps at long range and 1 less at close range, so when u have 2 bren u get 5 more dps at long and 3 at close
6 not having a snare does not make them useless or pgren by ur logic would not exist, or RE zook or sturm pio or pfusi
7 but why both trenches and green cover ? are u saying it's mandatory ? why rifle don't have them or volks ?
8 still a very fucking good nade for a long range unit
9 this might surprise u but RE are very good at cqc and have about the same dps as ass green while moving (5 vs 4)
10 they are much better than ass gren , they have Thompson too, do ass green get some stg ?
11 compare to any t0 light vehicle even doc one, it has the most armor and has the best lmg

1 yeah, more expensive units tend to be better then cheaper ones
2 well, if we ignore existence of soviets(airborne FRP), USF(ambu), OKW(spio crates, opel blitz) and Ost(luftwaffe healing crates), you are right
4 not as of latest patch
5 check the stats, difference is pretty significant
6 you want to deny that its beyond retarded to give IS piats?
7 because that's how faction was made, also trenches were soft removed from the game
8 hardly, not useless, but "very fucking good" is the last phrase I'd use to describe it
9 yeaaah, no - and 20% difference is not "almost the same"
10 thompson is nowhere close to STG, its SMG and pretty useless at long range. They are also more expensive then AGs and AGs scale better for the role with 6th man and better vet

Hi all,

as you can see we buffed IS with the last hotfix. There will be no major change to Briten Inf before a big cup. Also not really sure if brit will get changed at all anymore. This is an old game.

1 yeah, more expensive units tend to be better then cheaper ones
2 well, if we ignore existence of soviets(airborne FRP), USF(ambu), OKW(spio crates, opel blitz) and Ost(luftwaffe healing crates), you are right
4 not as of latest patch
5 check the stats, difference is pretty significant
6 you want to deny that its beyond retarded to give IS piats?
7 because that's how faction was made, also trenches were soft removed from the game
8 hardly, not useless, but "very fucking good" is the last phrase I'd use to describe it
9 yeaaah, no - and 20% difference is not "almost the same"
10 thompson is nowhere close to STG, its SMG and pretty useless at long range. They are also more expensive then AGs and AGs scale better for the role with 6th man and better vet

kat did u read what was written before ? he said ass gren are the same, so don't turn back the point to me

read the whole post , not only thing u can take out of context

kat did u read what was written before ? he said ass gren are the same, so don't turn back the point to me

Oh well. I got lost in that avalanche of bs.

read the whole post , not only thing u can take out of context

But some people popularized it and even boast about it in their sigs, I thought its trendy to do it like that

1. Cons suck but have to wait until T4 for bolster or pay in T3. Tommies have it much better.
2. Their medic bunker gives them mobile reinforce. They’re designed to be a more static faction.
3. Mg in building? Drop smoke, drop flare, building deleted. Smoke exists, use it.
4. That’s because everyone bolsters as soon as possible.
5. They don’t need to be better than an mg42. Grens are 4 men with an mg42, tommies are 5 men with a bren. 2 brens are absolute overkill and why the hell do tommies need to be better than grens in the first place?
6. This has been discussed to death. Giving sappers snares has revitalized the faction.
7. Most of the early game is spent capping. By the time you start dealing with coordinated assaults you should have sappers.
8. Absolutely nothing wrong with a standard grenade.
9. This has been the case for a while but the balance team refuses to remove the cover rof mechanic.
11. The UC’s competition in terms of T0 vehicles is the Kubel, the 221 and the Jeep. By far the most durable and has the best upgrades. Don’t you dare say it was better before the armour nerf, it was absolute cancer to deal with when facing ukf.

1. Penal exist doesn't they ?
2. Since when that the forward assembly can move ???
3. What smoke ? You mean the mortar pit ? It is at the bottom limit of usable now and absolutely not fit competitive lv of gameplay.
4. Which can prove that it is a mandatory upgrade and UKF is force to buy it or get fucked.
5. Why tommy have to be better than gren ? Very nice question. May be it have something to do with the fact that tommy is more expensive, requires more investment and being the only infantry unit the faction has nondoc.
6. Which further prove that giving PIAT to tommy is retarded.
7. If saper can be use as an assault unit then why panzer gren and have to exist with 4 stg and nuke nade since ost already stat with pio and pio and sapper have identical DPS profile ???
8. The fist guy bring it up in a list to prove that tommy is not underperform, i say it is standard, not outstanding and i'm ok with that.
9. It is a part of the faction identity which have been scaled down by a lot since the release.
11. And it have to fill the gap that the faction lack basis tools for, doesn't it ?

1. Penal exist doesn't they ?
2. Since when that the forward assembly can move ???
3. What smoke ? You mean the mortar pit ? It is at the bottom limit of usable now and absolutely not fit competitive lv of gameplay.
4. Which can prove that it is a mandatory upgrade and UKF is force to buy it or get fucked.
5. Why tommy have to be better than gren ? Very nice question. May be it have something to do with the fact that tommy is more expensive, requires more investment and being the only infantry unit the faction has nondoc.
6. Which further prove that giving PIAT to tommy is retarded.
7. If saper can be use as an assault unit then why panzer gren and have to exist with 4 stg and nuke nade since ost already stat with pio and pio and sapper have identical DPS profile ???
8. The fist guy bring it up in a list to prove that tommy is not underperform, i say it is standard, not outstanding and i'm ok with that.
9. It is a part of the faction identity which have been scaled down by a lot since the release.
11. And it have to fill the gap that the faction lack basis tools for, doesn't it ?

1. So just because there are other units it justifies specific ones being trash? Okay.
2. I said Brits are static, hence why their off base reinforcement is static.
3. Well if you don’t use indirect fire don’t complain why you don’t get the benefits.
4. Yes we already know that, just as 7men is mandatory for cons yet you can’t buy it in T0.
5. 30 mp means nothing. Not having pgrens is true, but you get double brens to compensate, as well as doctrinal options. Like I said, Brits have no right to get better infantry than anyone, this is just childish behaviour from Brits players who are used to strutting around with their batshit broken sections pretending they have any skill. Well according to Sturmpanther they aren’t getting adjusted.
7. I misunderstood that one, but since sections build sandbags why do you pretend like sappers building sandbags would be better? I’d argue starting with a section and then having them make cover is superior.
11. You get the Vickers upgrade for long range dps on axis 4man squads and the flamethrower upgrade to clear garrisons. Looks really good to me.

kat did u read what was written before ? he said ass gren are the same, so don't turn back the point to me

read the whole post , not only thing u can take out of context

By saying "about the same lv", I'm not means they are identical but ass gren definitely being more specialized and better fit the task, they come sooner, have sprint, assault nade, can be 6 man. Assault sections have 2 Thompson, sure but it is pretty off set by timing and 6 man when compare to ass gren. And i'm responding to the other guy, he brought it up in the fist place.

1. So just because there are other units it justifies specific ones being trash? Okay.
2. I said Brits are static, hence why their off base reinforcement is static.
3. Well if you don’t use indirect fire don’t complain why you don’t get the benefits.
4. Yes we already know that, just as 7men is mandatory for cons yet you can’t buy it in T0.
5. 30 mp means nothing. Not having pgrens is true, but you get double brens to compensate, as well as doctrinal options. Like I said, Brits have no right to get better infantry than anyone, this is just childish behaviour from Brits players who are used to strutting around with their batshit broken sections pretending they have any skill. Well according to Sturmpanther they aren’t getting adjusted.
7. I misunderstood that one, but since sections build sandbags why do you pretend like sappers building sandbags would be better? I’d argue starting with a section and then having them make cover is superior.
11. You get the Vickers upgrade for long range dps on axis 4man squads and the flamethrower upgrade to clear garrisons. Looks really good to me.

1. I didn't say con is trash, you said so, i mention penal as an example that a faction have more infantry choice, ukf only have tommy and tommy.
2. You say forward base is UKF's "mobile" reinforce, and that is wrong. Ost is designed to be more static and defense Orient, too, but why they still have pzgren and fast LV and mobile reinforce HT ?
3. Have you ever use th mortar pit yourself ? And i can say exactly the same about the case of gren, you dont use your support weapons to support gren, you dont get the result you want.
4. And UKF and sow have completely different line up, sow can chose to begin with better infantry, UKF can chose to invest early to make their infantry better. If you want mirroring then make move bolster to T2, then make them free at T3 or specializations, will you?
5. If 30 Mp mean nothing then why volk outperform con that much ? And if having double bren is to compensate for not having unit like panzer gren then why you complaint when it is better than single mg42 ? And dont bring in doctrinal because axis have their doc too. Furthermore If You say ukf have no right to have better infantry then who give okw and ost the right to have stock elites ??? Sory but You dont event try to hide you bias there.

7. I dont pretend anything, some guy bring up that tommy should lose sandbags, i simply dont agree with that because UKF doesn't have T0 engineer to built cover for tommy, that is all.

11. Sounds great until you actually have to use it.

Honest questions, do you play UKF ?

1. I didn't say con is trash, you said so, i mention penal as an example that a faction have more infantry choice, ukf only have tommy and tommy.
2. You say forward base is UKF's "mobile" reinforce, and that is wrong. Ost is designed to be more static and defense Orient, too, but why they still have pzgren and fast LV and mobile reinforce HT ?
3. Have you ever use th mortar pit yourself ? And i can say exactly the same about the case of gren, you dont use your support weapons to support gren, you dont get the result you want.
4. And UKF and sow have completely different line up, sow can chose to begin with better infantry, UKF can chose to invest early to make their infantry better. If you want mirroring then make move bolster to T2, then make them free at T3 or specializations, will you?
5. If 30 Mp mean nothing then why volk outperform con that much ? And if having double bren is to compensate for not having unit like panzer gren then why you complaint when it is better than single mg42 ? And dont bring in doctrinal because axis have their doc too. Furthermore If You say ukf have no right to have better infantry then who give okw and ost the right to have stock elites ??? Sory but You dont event try to hide you bias there.

7. I dont pretend anything, some guy bring up that tommy should lose sandbags, i simply dont agree with that because UKF doesn't have T0 engineer to built cover for tommy, that is all.

11. Sounds great until you actually have to use it.

Honest questions, do you play UKF ?

Yeah I’m not gonna bother with most of them but for the 5th point.

I have no bias, you do.

Ostheer has the right to get stock elites (pgrens) because their mainlines (grens) are static fighters and have a very hard time attacking on the move. In contrast sections are quite competent in attacking roles, with actual grenades, pyrotechnics, double brens available and mobile healing for free.
Soviets have the right to get penals otherwise conscripts would need a complete overhaul.
OKW has the right to get Obers at T4 since Volks were designed to be expendable trash vs the original riflemen. That design has gone away and I do think Obers are in a strange spot now that Volks are good, but blame Relic for it and I doubt the community team can remove them.

As for Volks beating cons, you have it completely wrong. Volks lose to cons, despite costing 20mp more. However, due to power creep and needing to deal with usf/ukf, volks got an stg upgrade which renders the matchup vs cons a one sided contest. Like I said though, if you go by purely numbers of initial deployment, cons beat grens, volks and fusiliers. You were the one who only cited mp costs, so here you go.

Double bren is there for you to use, my point is that it’s way too good so a slight bren buff with a weapon slot reduction would be the best course of action imo.

Let me repeat myself: UKF has no right to have the best infantry in the game. I don’t care if okw has Obers, usf has riflemen, soviets have penals, it’s literally irrelevant. Nobody should have to face ukf and watch their army melt because relic made sections absurdly OP just to sell DLC. Sections should have a reasonable power level which according to the balance team is their current one. Again, stock elite infantry has absolutely nothing to do with mainlines, as there are other tools available to compensate.

As for bias, I am in agreement with the balance team that within reason the UKF faction is fine at the moment. I guess everyobe is biased except for you.

Edit: I don’t think you play ukf if you really think pits are your only source of smoke. Maybe build a cromwell once in a while?

Ostheer has the right to get stock elites (pgrens) because their mainlines (grens) are static fighters and have a very hard time attacking on the move. In contrast sections are quite competent in attacking roles, with actual grenades, pyrotechnics, double brens available and mobile healing for free.

"gren have hard time attaking on the move but sections are competent in attacking" ohhh, The irony. May be you will wan to check sections's moving acc/dps before making suck a statement, and i will tell you a secret: "bren gun cant fire on the move and sections have debuff out cover". Any attempt to cross open field under fire with tommy this patch will result in heavily model drop.

As for Volks beating cons, you have it completely wrong. Volks lose to cons, despite costing 20mp more. However, due to power creep and needing to deal with usf/ukf, volks got an stg upgrade which renders the matchup vs cons a one sided contest. Like I said though, if you go by purely numbers of initial deployment, cons beat grens, volks and fusiliers. You were the one who only cited mp costs, so here you go.

you are missing my point, again. i'm not only count for MP cost, i say "tommy is more expensive, requires more investment", you are the one that only bring up 30 MP diffenrent and i reply accordingly.

Double bren is there for you to use, my point is that it’s way too good so a slight bren buff with a weapon slot reduction would be the best course of action imo.

here is where i already agree with you, as i said in post #179.

Let me repeat myself: UKF has no right to have the best infantry in the game. I don’t care if okw has Obers, usf has riflemen, soviets have penals, it’s literally irrelevant. Nobody should have to face ukf and watch their army melt because relic made sections absurdly OP just to sell DLC. Sections should have a reasonable power level which according to the balance team is their current one. Again, stock elite infantry has absolutely nothing to do with mainlines, as there are other tools available to compensate.

As for bias, I am in agreement with the balance team that within reason the UKF faction is fine at the moment. I guess everyobe is biased except for you.

Damm it, here is where everything get messed up. I have to say it is my bad not to make a clear point from the stat. Allow me to make myyself clear again, about curently sections (latest patch with cost to 270), i'm not saying they are underperorm at all, nor overperform by any mean. My issue is the overall struggling early game of UKF as a faction but I'm not asking for the old sections back or any flat buff for section. I was in the disscustion giving feed back about reworking tommy then achpawel come up with a list of reasons why sections are not underperfoming, i reply to him then got carried away arguring with you.

Edit: I don’t think you play ukf if you really think pits are your only source of smoke. Maybe build a cromwell once in a while?

wait 10 - 12 minute for a cromwell to get somke, why not? But until then, i'm prety sure the pit is still the only somke i had.