50 cal - Why is it so good?

Because you have to spend 35 fuel to unlock it, and it locks out AT guns unless you spend another 35. Is this really a question?

The AP rounds of the weapon you have mentioned all increase damage and penetration and there is little reason that they should also increase suppression (unless damage is somehow connected...)


1) Having the gunner targeted is in way "bad luck" since the other crew member should have priority. Probably only the gunner was in range...

2) Note that vet 1 increases the suppression of the weapon.

So it does increase suppression?

And that is one of the reasons why Ostheer should be used as benchmark when balancing the units.

+1

Ostheer/Wehrmacht is the best designed faction and should be the benchmark by which all others are defined by. Unfortunately what has happened is the often talked about power creep and the bastardization of the original factions. MG42 and Panzergrenadiers in the HQ are bad faction design and are NOT how it used to be. These changes were made to “fix” Ostheer because they were not as good as the new factions. The problem was never with Ostheer, but with the way OKW and USF were originally implemented. Current OKW and USF are much MUCH better designed after several big rehauls, but the damage was already done.

But USF would be a lot easier to balance if they didn't get free squads.

The USF officers are the bane of the faction. They don’t feel unique to the player, they are mandatory to get if you tech up and they are frustrating to play against because “why does he get free squads and I don’t?”.

Lieutenant and Captain need to be reworked into specialist squads that are NOT free, NOT mandatory with tech and NOT just fancy Riflemen.

I’d redo the USF tech structure to be more like Ostheer. You are forced to tech linearly from platoon to company to battalion command post. Officers are still available from each level of tech but you don’t get them for free and they are distinctly different from Riflemen.

Lieutenant- 5 man squad with 3 M1 Garands on Riflemen models, 1 Paratrooper M1 Carbine on the Lieutenant model and 1 M1C sniper rifle on a Pathfinder model. This squad is an anti sniper team/long range combat team that can help USF in long ranged fights that it normally struggles with. Ability is a sniper shot that kills one model instantly and is intended for countering a sniper if you get a flank off. Good in long ranged fights but can only pick up one weapon. This makes him situational as an anti sniper or long range unit, but is weaker than a rifleman squad at generalist duties.

Captain- 5 man squad with 4 Rear Echelon models with RE M1 Carbines and the Captain who has a Paratrooper M1 Carbine. Can upgrade to have double Bazookas or double M1919A6 LMGs making him a good support squad with his good upgrades, but is weak when not upgraded. These weapon upgrades reflect what actual weapons were held at the company level and would’ve been issued out at the direction of the company commander (a Captain).

Major- no rework needed to his abilities or armament, just increase squad size to 4 men and don’t give him for free with tech. 4 men is a slight buff to the squad, but since you have to buy him separately and not get if for free then a small buff seems reasonable.

End result? USF officers are all more specialized in their roles and are more appropriately armed per historical tables of organization and equipment. They are no longer mandatory, but are no longer free. This gives USF players more freedom to get team weapons without being forced to get a squad they don’t want or need, but is also means that playing against USF you don’t have an enemy that gets free squads just for teching up.

The USF officers are the bane of the faction. They don’t feel unique to the player, they are mandatory to get if you tech up and they are frustrating to play against because “why does he get free squads and I don’t?”.

Lieutenant and Captain need to be reworked into specialist squads that are NOT free, NOT mandatory with tech and NOT just fancy Riflemen.

I’d redo the USF tech structure to be more like Ostheer. You are forced to tech linearly from platoon to company to battalion command post. Officers are still available from each level of tech but you don’t get them for free and they are distinctly different from Riflemen.

Lieutenant- 5 man squad with 3 M1 Garands on Riflemen models, 1 Paratrooper M1 Carbine on the Lieutenant model and 1 M1C sniper rifle on a Pathfinder model. This squad is an anti sniper team/long range combat team that can help USF in long ranged fights that it normally struggles with. Ability is a sniper shot that kills one model instantly and is intended for countering a sniper if you get a flank off. Good in long ranged fights but can only pick up one weapon. This makes him situational as an anti sniper or long range unit, but is weaker than a rifleman squad at generalist duties.

Captain- 5 man squad with 4 Rear Echelon models with RE M1 Carbines and the Captain who has a Paratrooper M1 Carbine. Can upgrade to have double Bazookas or double M1919A6 LMGs making him a good support squad with his good upgrades, but is weak when not upgraded. These weapon upgrades reflect what actual weapons were held at the company level and would’ve been issued out at the direction of the company commander (a Captain).

Major- no rework needed to his abilities or armament, just increase squad size to 4 men and don’t give him for free with tech. 4 men is a slight buff to the squad, but since you have to buy him separately and not get if for free then a small buff seems reasonable.

End result? USF officers are all more specialized in their roles and are more appropriately armed per historical tables of organization and equipment. They are no longer mandatory, but are no longer free. This gives USF players more freedom to get team weapons without being forced to get a squad they don’t want or need, but is also means that playing against USF you don’t have an enemy that gets free squads just for teching up.

Best idea I’ve heard on usf. Wish the balance team took this seriously.

So it does increase suppression?

Other people are contacting HMG tests to work out how suppression work not me. I would doubt thou that damage or penetration being involved.

Thus AP rounds probably do not increase suppression for any HMG.

50 cal isn't the best HMG. It's not even the best allied HMG
Pros:
Fast setup/teardown
Highest per-shot damage
Good per-shot suppression
Highest base penetration
AP rounds without vet (which do not require a reload; ability still inferior to the HMG42 or 34 vs vehicles due to inferior ROF and burst duration)

Cons:
Most expensive stock HMG
Highest RA on retreat compared to any other squad
Highest aim time of any MG by far, even higher than Dshka
Second lowest DPS (Only the MG34 is worse)
Second shortest burst duration (Only Dshka is worse)
Slowest rate of fire
Death loop hampered further by highest retreat RA
Edit: Highest cooldown too, it seems.

Really my only problem with the 50 cal is that you can generally attack move it all of the time because it sets up so quickly. It's squishy but it has great suppression and can generally react to flanks much quicker than other MG's. Maybe just a slight nerf to the set-up time would be fair enough.

Yes lets just ignore all the doctrines because there certainly arent Pathfinders IR Pathfinders Paras Rangers Cav Riflemen and Assault engineers in your load out.

i left out the doctrines for everyone. core is whats important. you dont balance the core by what you can get in doctrines (i.e. old soviet design) core must be independant and work regardless of doctrines

i left out the doctrines for everyone. core is whats important. you dont balance the core by what you can get in doctrines (i.e. old soviet design) core must be independant and work regardless of doctrines

If that was the design we were after no one would play Soviets because without their Guards and Shocks in early to mid and call in vehicles in late they would be completely trash.

If that was the design we were after no one would play Soviets because without their Guards and Shocks in early to mid and call in vehicles in late they would be completely trash.

You have confused doctrinal independence and doctrine units being shit.
If what you are trying to say here was true, not a single doctrinal unit would ever be viable for OKW.

That still doesnt explain why USF gets the best MG in COH2 while also getting the best infantry. Ost is supposed to have strong teamweapons to compensate for Grens so I understand why the MG42 is amazing but the same cant be said about the USF unit roster with strong mainline infantry + strong call ins + plenty of LV + free squads.

They don't get the best infantry or anything close to the best infantry in CoH2 and they don't have the best MG either.

Let me guess...you lost a game to .50 cals because you aren't use to having to pop smoke and flank as opposed to your usual Wehraboo strategy of blobbing your cheap units and rushing them at your opponent's MGs while just chucking a giant ass bomb at them like you can do with Maxims, Vickers, or now the Bofors.

They don't get the best infantry or anything close to the best infantry in CoH2 and they don't have the best MG either.

Let me guess...you lost a game to .50 cals because you aren't use to having to pop smoke and flank as opposed to your usual Wehraboo strategy of blobbing your cheap units and rushing them at your opponent's MGs while just chucking a giant ass bomb at them like you can do with Maxims, Vickers, or now the Bofors.

riflemen are the best mainline inf in the game. .50cal costs alot and comes later which is its justification for it being good. #

Can someone help me confirm tho.. arnt .50cals by far the easiest to wipe?

riflemen are the best mainline inf in the game. .50cal costs alot and comes later which is its justification for it being good. #

Can someone help me confirm tho.. arnt .50cals by far the easiest to wipe?

that is correct, although i suspect its a bug. they have a larger than average target size when retreating

riflemen are the best mainline inf in the game. .50cal costs alot and comes later which is its justification for it being good. #

Can someone help me confirm tho.. arnt .50cals by far the easiest to wipe?

"Mainline" is a little bit of an open definition, there are many units you can use as a "mainline" and I can name at least a couple that are better than Riflemen, Infantry Sections and Penals come to mind.

In which alternate reality are Penals better than Riflemen when you consider the lack of upgrades, lack of snares, lack of grenades and having to go a certain tech in order to get them?

In which alternate reality are Penals better than Riflemen when you consider the lack of upgrades, lack of snares, lack of grenades and having to go a certain tech in order to get them?

I'd take Penals over Riflemen in a heartbeat.

Yes lets just ignore all the doctrines because there certainly arent Pathfinders IR Pathfinders Paras Rangers Cav Riflemen and Assault engineers in your load out.

Casually leaves out storm troopers, JLI, JLI command Squad, panzerF infantry, falls, ass grens ,Command said upgrade for ost units, and g43 upgrades for infantry aswell as the ability to give all infantry cloak and ambush camo. I’d say Ostheer has the most flexible and most versatile doctrinal units in game suitable for a plethora of needs. Also keep in mind that these doctrinal units for USF come in limited quantities doctrines compared to their axis counter parts that can get up to 2 or 3 doctrines for elite infantry.

I'd take Penals over Riflemen in a heartbeat.

You’d die of a heart attack.

i left out the doctrines for everyone. core is whats important. you dont balance the core by what you can get in doctrines (i.e. old soviet design) core must be independant and work regardless of doctrines

Old design? Aside from Armoured Assault, which meta sov commander doesn’t have call ins.

Old design? Aside from Armoured Assault, which meta sov commander doesn’t have call ins.

See, the difference between old and current design is, you don't automatically lose the game, regardless of skill level or game mode if you can't field guards.

Good comparing it with what? It doesnt seem that good when you compare it with mg42 which comes at tier 0, costs less, has more supression and higher arc of fire