Repair Speeds

DECEMBER 19th "COMMUNITY" UPDATE
Repair Speeds
Western Front Armies' repair speeds are being brought in line with the Eastern Front armies.
USF Rear Echelon & British Royal Engineers:

Repair Speed reduced from 2 to 1.6
Veterancy 2 repair bonus from 1 to 0.5

Heavy Sapper upgrade repair bonus from 2 to 0.525
Sturmpioneers

Repair speed from 3 to 2
Veterancy 2 repair speed reduced from 1 to 0.75
Minesweeper upgrade repair bonus from +1 to +25%

On the DECEMBER 19th "COMMUNITY" UPDATE Rear Echelon & British Royal Engineers got the exact same repair speed as wh & su pioneers.

And on the latest patch

In order to give the Eastern Front factions repair times that are more in line with those of the Western Front armies, the minesweeper upgrade on Pioneer squads will now give additional repair speed.

Minesweeper upgrade now improves repair speed by 0.3 per model

This is not bringing ost & su inline with the Eastern Armies this is giving them an advantage over them.
Of course for USF this doesn't Bother u much since u can just hop off your vehicle and have an extra repair squad.
But for UKF this doesn't feel balanced, i mean of course bolster + heavy sappers upgrade will give them a great repair speed bonus but at a time when the game is usually almost over and for a horrific price tag.
Sturmpioneers on the other hand have an extreme advantage over all other pioneers in all terms + get buffed now to reach veterancy faster.

Here are the repair speeds compared:

faction	vanilla repairspeed	max. repairspeed (vet + upgrades)
ost	1.6	2.4 vet2 + 35 mun
su	1.6	2.4 vet2 + 35 mun
USF	1.6	2.5 vet3 + 5th man
UKF	1.6	3.025 vet2 + 60mun + Bolster + Anvil
OKW	2	3.4375 vet3 + 35 mun

As you can see, the most expensive vanilla squad "Sturmpioneer" hast the best repair speed and also the best combat performance, no surprise so far.
But if you consider how well the scale for just a 35 mun upgrade they seem overturned and the heavy sappers with all their additional tech cost seem under performing, especially now with the additional buff to eastern Armies.

In my opinion the 5th man heavy sappers should have the best repair speed in game, because they arrive later on the the battlefield = less time to gain vetrancy and with all their upgrades they are extreme expensive and still suck at combat.

1) Ostheer pioneer can only gain veterancy in first 5 minutes
2) R.E., Ro.E can gain veterancy fast by using AT weapons
3) Heavy sapper is badly designed upgrade.


Imo heavy sapper should be separated into 2 different upgrade one providing repair speed and another combat oriented reducing repair speed but turning them into a good CQC unit.

Another change imo should separating the patch of engineer type of unit.

1) Engineers, Sweepers now take all weapon slots, provides a repair spead bonus and XP bonus for building structures with cost like building, mines, emplacement.

2)fight engineer, flamer/weapons reduce repair speed but provide extra bonus like reduce size...

i heard tightrope say the repair upgrade only give wehr option, to either gain repair speeds through vet or purchase minesweep.

considering wehr dont have auto repairs, while ukf do at doc or not doc, i dont see a problem.

i heard tightrope say the repair upgrade only give wehr option, to either gain repair speeds through vet or purchase minesweep.

considering wehr dont have auto repairs, while ukf do at doc or not doc, i dont see a problem.

no vet and minesweeper give them now an additional repair speed bonus they stack and this is not only for wehr but fur su as well. Iam fine with these chances but this has nothing to do anymore to bring them inline with western armies.

ukf has a repairstation on the advances emplacement commander and this commander is dead since the pacth

they are fine

You pay extra for EFA by having repairs on a unit that brings nothing else to your army. The sweeper locks out any other option but WFA allies can slap a weapon on then (and extra man) and sturms can put it away

Also it's a bit unjust to compare hammer/bolster as if it's an exclusive upgrade... They each grant great bonuses to your army already regardless of repair speed

On another note with changes in repair speed I see little reason for damage reduction for Soviet tanks. It can be changed to HP in there is a need for.

Both Rear Echelon Troops and Royal Engineers can pick up weapons in addition to their minesweeper in order to quite easily gain veterancy. Both squads can get 5 models. USF has vehicle crew repairs. UKF has the Heavy Sappers upgrade and quite a lot of commanders with self repair. OKW can easily vet up Sturmpioneers that get a bonus with minesweepers, and they have the Mechanized repairs upgrade.

On a side note, Sturmpioneers get better repairs because they are the most expensive at 300 manpower and you can't as easily get 2-3 of them compared to all other engineer units.


Ostheer meanwhile had practically nothing. 1 commander with repair bunkers. Minesweeper Pioneers can't get any other weapons and virtually can not get veterancy. The repair times of Ostheer were notoriously long compared to all other factions.

Soviets did not really need the minesweeper extra repair speed because they have a lot of doctrinal repair abilities, but it was changed in light of standardization regardless.

Both Rear Echelon Troops and Royal Engineers can pick up weapons in addition to their minesweeper in order to quite easily gain veterancy. Both squads can get 5 models. USF has vehicle crew repairs. UKF has the Heavy Sappers upgrade and quite a lot of commanders with self repair. OKW can easily vet up Sturmpioneers that get a bonus with minesweepers, and they have the Mechanized repairs upgrade.

On a side note, Sturmpioneers get better repairs because they are the most expensive at 300 manpower and you can't as easily get 2-3 of them compared to all other engineer units.


Ostheer meanwhile had practically nothing. 1 commander with repair bunkers. Minesweeper Pioneers can't get any other weapons and virtually can not get veterancy. The repair times of Ostheer were notoriously long compared to all other factions.

Soviets did not really need the minesweeper extra repair speed because they have a lot of doctrinal repair abilities, but it was changed in light of standardization regardless.

One reason more to replace the damage reduction with HP on KV tanks.

The Problem for me is, when you do all these upgrades (Bolster, Anvil, Unlock the weapon rack equip them with additional guns, heavy sapper upgrades) they cost way more then a Sturmpioneer but have worse combat and repair performance + the stupid slow down mechanism and you also lock out hammer

The Problem for me is, when you do all these upgrades (Bolster, Anvil, Unlock the weapon rack equip them with additional guns, heavy sapper upgrades) they cost way more then a Sturmpioneer but have worse combat and repair performance + the stupid slow down mechanism and you also lock out hammer

If it only effected sappers you would be right, but bolster effects all of your Tommies and sappers as arguably one of the best tech abilities in the game (all core infantry 25%mkre health and dps and for sappers extra repair? Yes please) and weapon racks effect all Infantry and anvil unlocks bonuses and a new fantastic unit. It's not like you say "imma bolster my infantry so I can repair faster"

They are all BONUSES that effect a 210mp unit. I think you are expecting too much from them....

Haven't checked for USF, but for the others I'll copy an old post of mine:

I find (for Brit engineers) the following values: 1. heal action 1,6; 2. heal action 0,5; 3. heal action 0,525
Which are 1. base repair; 2. vetted squad, 3. Heavy sapper upgrade.
-For a 5 man squad, this would lead to repair speeds of 8, 10,5 and 13,625, respectively.
The smoke repair ability has a repair speed of 11.
-> total speed of 13,625/squad; 27,25 for 2 squads + 11 ability repair = 38,25

OKW:
Pioneer repair speed: 2; vet2 bonus 0,75; upgrade bonus 0,5; combined vet+upgrade bonus (apparently there is one, I did not know this before) 0,1875.
-> Makes a total speed of 13,75 per squad, or 27,5 for two. Plus mechanized HQ repairs that I don't know about. Or approx 27 without the shady combined bonus.
I don't find anything about the base pioneers, so maybe they're the same?

OST: uses the soviet repair ability
repair speed: 1,6; vet2 bonus: 1; (there's also an upgrade bonus of 0,3 for breakthrough package, but I'll leave it out due to doctrin)
-> Makes a total speed of 10,4/squad or 20,8 for two squads.

Now, post patch, OST and SOV get additional 0,3 per model, leading to a max speed of 11,6 HP/s and 23,2 HP/s for two squads.

Now it's not realistic to max everything out, but you can do the maths from there yourself.

To sum up, max repair speeds per squad:
SOV: 11,6
OST: 11,6
UKF: 13,625
OKW: 13,75 (plus potential repair engi upgrade on T2 with 9 HP/s in total)
USF: Don't know, but they use different mechanics anyway, so harder to nail down.

And before the discussion takes off:
Another thing to consider is the tank upkeep regarding repairs. In general, Allies have higher chances to get penned and thus need repairs slightly more often (there are exceptions of course). And then there is pop for the engineer squads. For OKW it's usually a bad idea to go for two engineers due to high cost and maintainance.

The Problem for me is, when you do all these upgrades (Bolster, Anvil, Unlock the weapon rack equip them with additional guns, heavy sapper upgrades) they cost way more then a Sturmpioneer but have worse combat and repair performance + the stupid slow down mechanism and you also lock out hammer

You also need to factor in the Pop of each unit...

If it only effected sappers you would be right, but bolster effects all of your Tommies and sappers as arguably one of the best tech abilities in the game (all core infantry 25%mkre health and dps and for sappers extra repair? Yes please) and weapon racks effect all Infantry and anvil unlocks bonuses and a new fantastic unit. It's not like you say "imma bolster my infantry so I can repair faster"

They are all BONUSES that effect a 210mp unit. I think you are expecting too much from them....

Ok lets think about a standard 1v1 game, in the most cases there a five squads affected by bolster upgrade and weapon rack.
And if you go for anvil usually its 2 churchills max.
So u can split the tech cost over all these units.

Boltser 150 Mp 35 Fuel, divided by 5 = 30Mp 7 Fuel per squad
Weapon Rack 150 MP 15 Fuel, divided by 5 = 30MP 3 Fuel per squad
Anvil 200 Mp 50 Fuel, divided by 3 = 67 Mp 17 Fuel
Reinforce sappers to get the 5th man = 26 Mp

Makes total cost for heavy sapper: 337 Mp 27 Fuel 60 Mun + additional 100 mun for double piats
And this units repairs still slower then Sturmpioneers and has worse combat performance

You also need to factor in the Pop of each unit...

Sappers have 6
Sturpios 8
Volks 7
Tommies upgrades have 8

so core infantries + pioneers

should be roughly the same

Sappers have 6
Sturpios 8
Volks 7
Tommies upgrades have 8

so core infantries + pioneers

should be roughly the same

The point how much pop per repair speed you get...

Sappers have 6
Sturpios 8
Volks 7
Tommies upgrades have 8

so core infantries + pioneers

should be roughly the same

That is a bit scewed as you also need to account for fighting power and capping power. And after that the overall faction end game build and it gets very wild and speculative from there onwards.
I think it's easier just to compare the engineers by themselves.
Just judging engineers, I'd say OKW has the hardest time to get their stuff repaired because it's not that easy to fit in two Sturmpios as they're not useful in the late game (maybe that got better now with the patch), bleed you a lot MP and they're too expensive to just keep them in the backline.
Sappers on the other hand are great units. Decent CQC until the mid game, later on you can fit them with PIATs or LMGs. Due to the reasonable reinforcement cost they can serve as a meat shield for more expensive Tommies when not on repair duty. The only downside is that they often need to go into battle since they are the only UKF unit that can snare. That's also why having two of them has become standard.
So what is there to say for SOV and OST? Well, at least the engineers are cheap.

snip

You need to factor in that putting a sweeper on those squads instead of a flamethrower makes them terrible in combat, and they are unlikey to vet up all the way.

I haven't played enough of the patch to decide whether this was a balanced change or not.

Ok lets think about a standard 1v1 game, in the most cases there a five squads affected by bolster upgrade and weapon rack.
And if you go for anvil usually its 2 churchills max.
So u can split the tech cost over all these units.

Boltser 150 Mp 35 Fuel, divided by 5 = 30Mp 7 Fuel per squad
Weapon Rack 150 MP 15 Fuel, divided by 5 = 30MP 3 Fuel per squad
Anvil 200 Mp 50 Fuel, divided by 3 = 67 Mp 17 Fuel
Reinforce sappers to get the 5th man = 26 Mp

Makes total cost for heavy sapper: 337 Mp 27 Fuel 60 Mun + additional 100 mun for double piats
And this units repairs still slower then Sturmpioneers and has worse combat performance

Slightly worse repairs but 25% more health, 2 at weapons and an lmg... A fully functional squad that can shoot from range with the lmg and defend against tanks with 2 piats and a snare.
You are certainly trying to make it seem like 8 pop 300mp sturms have it all arnt you?

Slightly worse repairs but 25% more health, 2 at weapons and an lmg... A fully functional squad that can shoot from range with the lmg and defend against tanks with 2 piats and a snare.
You are certainly trying to make it seem like 8 pop 300mp sturms have it all arnt you?

The combination of heavy sappers and pitas is so bad, they suck against inf and thanks to the slowing mechanism they are to slow to flank tanks.
But most likely u even wont make it to heavy sappers, where u have your Sturmpio right at the beginning.
What i want to say, after all this patient and resources u spent they felt complete underwhelming why couldn't they be therefore at least the fastest repairing unit in game. I mean the heavy sappers upgrade got nerved in the December patch by almost 75% percent, that was to much.

And for all other's i agree with the changes to ost & su but i feel like UKF got left behind now.

The thing is in a normal 1v1 game u working 70% of the time in the game with a standard 4 man squad there you also have to equip a sweeper and lose 25% combat performance, which come at T1 cost 10 mp more but repairs now slower then a T0 200 Mp unit.

I can understand that they wanted to bring the eastern pios in line with western pios but they did it mainly because of the Sturmpios and USF vehicle crews and UKF got left behind now.