The Scott's smoke canister is often cited as the reason it's such a bitch to kill: any unit that dives the back line hunting for it has to content with its ability to throw down a sight blocker whenever it's in danger.
Based on the game's tooltips and loading screen text, the original vision for the Stuart was a utility tank: its 80 damage main gun is fairly useless against anything bigger than a Puma, but it's got powerful support abilities to help Shermans and Jacksons take down big targets.
In practice, a Stuart in a medium tank fight is a dead Stuart.
So why not kill two birds with one stone?
The Scott becomes less survivable, finally making it vulnerable to dives. The Stuart gets a Vet 1 escape ability, helping it scale into the mid and late game without tweaking its firepower and messing up its light vehicle matchups.
Move Vet 1 Smoke Pot from Scott To Stuart
1 Sep 2019, 17:53 PM
#1
Posts: 3260
1 Sep 2019, 18:20 PM
#2
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I'd be all for removing smoke canister from scott or 400HP -> 320HP (2 shot kill), but I'm not really a fan of giving the stuart smoke. Its problem IMO is its main gun doesn't do nearly enough damage to vehicles. It survives well enough already being practically immune to luchs and 222 fire. Only the puma and larger can harm it. So I don't really think it needs to extra suvivability. I'm more of buff the AT damage, lower the armor and AI damage guy.
1 Sep 2019, 18:34 PM
#3
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Would medium crush be going too far on stuart? Iirc that lets it crush some more objects but NOT infantry. I know other lights of that "class" dont have it, but most of them also have a clear role
The stuart is like halfway between the t70 and puma, and that kind of makes it hard to use. It relies hard on maneuverability, especially with that engine ability, so making its pathing easier would be nice
Get rid of smoke pots on scott regardless of stuart. The smoke barrage is enough
The stuart is like halfway between the t70 and puma, and that kind of makes it hard to use. It relies hard on maneuverability, especially with that engine ability, so making its pathing easier would be nice
Get rid of smoke pots on scott regardless of stuart. The smoke barrage is enough
1 Sep 2019, 18:38 PM
#4
Posts: 2066
Would medium crush be going too far on stuart? Iirc that lets it crush some more objects but NOT infantry. I know other lights of that "class" dont have it, but most of them also have a clear role
The stuart is like halfway between the t70 and puma, and that kind of makes it hard to use. It relies hard on maneuverability, especially with that engine ability, so making its pathing easier would be nice
Get rid of smoke pots on scott regardless of stuart. The smoke barrage is enough
Sure, can I have medium crush on 222, and a stun crit and a decrew please? Also, can I have decent ai and light at performace at the same time? Nice thanks!
Kappa
1 Sep 2019, 18:42 PM
#5
Posts: 3260
I'd be all for removing smoke canister from scott or 400HP -> 320HP (2 shot kill), but I'm not really a fan of giving the stuart smoke. Its problem IMO is its main gun doesn't do nearly enough damage to vehicles. It survives well enough already being practically immune to luchs and 222 fire. Only the puma and larger can harm it. So I don't really think it needs to extra suvivability. I'm more of buff the AT damage, lower the armor and AI damage guy.
It doesn't need extra survivability against light vehicles. It's fine in that ecosystem.
Its problem is, unlike the AEC and Puma, it becomes obsolete once the medium tank phase hits. That extra armour means little against a medium tank's gun and, as you said, its main gun is almost worthless against mediums and up.
The tooltips and loading screens suggest the Stuart's a control unit: its damage sucks but it can swing fights hard when supporting a medium with Shell Shock and Point Blank Engine Shot.
Those abilities are questionably useful when the Stuart rarely survives the attempt. A smoke canister would make those abilities more practical to use.
Your suggestion of reworking it into something more like an AEC would also work. The AEC and the Puma are proven good designs for AT lights.
1 Sep 2019, 19:04 PM
#6
Posts: 3053
I'd be all for removing smoke canister from scott or 400HP -> 320HP (2 shot kill), but I'm not really a fan of giving the stuart smoke. Its problem IMO is its main gun doesn't do nearly enough damage to vehicles. It survives well enough already being practically immune to luchs and 222 fire. Only the puma and larger can harm it. So I don't really think it needs to extra suvivability. I'm more of buff the AT damage, lower the armor and AI damage guy.
+1
Its stunshot is also great for escaping enemy tanks already anyway, it doesn't really need another defensive ability.
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1 Sep 2019, 20:14 PM
#7
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Sure, can I have medium crush on 222, and a stun crit and a decrew please? Also, can I have decent ai and light at performace at the same time? Nice thanks!
What's your problem? It was just an idea, what's the jerky sarcasm for?
Do you want to more than double the fuel cost of the 222 as well? What kind of comparison is that?
1 Sep 2019, 21:04 PM
#8
Posts: 5279
What's your problem? It was just an idea, what's the jerky sarcasm for?
Do you want to more than double the fuel cost of the 222 as well? What kind of comparison is that?
My guess would be, based on their posts I recognize lately that they are a bad player and their only interest is in having it easy for themselves. They clearly don't understand even the basics of balance and relative costs. I wouldn't waste my time with them
On topic I think medium crush could be worth trying, same with the OP
#stalinwept
1 Sep 2019, 21:20 PM
#9
Posts: 320
Sure, can I have medium crush on 222, and a stun crit and a decrew please? Also, can I have decent ai and light at performace at the same time? Nice thanks!
Better, you can have 50 range, self-spot, highly mobile, 160 dmg when vetted, turreted LV with smoke and turret lock. It's called Puma. It costs about the same as Stuart.
1 Sep 2019, 21:55 PM
#10
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
On topic I think medium crush could be worth trying, same with the OP
Do you happen to know if that's the correct "crush level"? I want the one that lets you crush stone walls and not infantry
Cause i don't want it splattering people Halo style, just better pathing
1 Sep 2019, 23:02 PM
#11
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
It doesn't need extra survivability against light vehicles. It's fine in that ecosystem.
Its problem is, unlike the AEC and Puma, it becomes obsolete once the medium tank phase hits. That extra armour means little against a medium tank's gun and, as you said, its main gun is almost worthless against mediums and up.
The tooltips and loading screens suggest the Stuart's a control unit: its damage sucks but it can swing fights hard when supporting a medium with Shell Shock and Point Blank Engine Shot.
Those abilities are questionably useful when the Stuart rarely survives the attempt. A smoke canister would make those abilities more practical to use.
Your suggestion of reworking it into something more like an AEC would also work. The AEC and the Puma are proven good designs for AT lights.
When the stuart gets vetted it has some pretty damn good LoS. I think it's like 60 sight range? It's pretty nice, but other than that it can't really engage much after the light phase due to AT guns being paired and the M20 also does the same thing, although it more consistant and can plant ultrastrong mines. Personally I'd take the AEC clone, but asymmetric community would have my head.
1 Sep 2019, 23:51 PM
#12
Posts: 5279
Do you happen to know if that's the correct "crush level"? I want the one that lets you crush stone walls and not infantry
Cause i don't want it splattering people Halo style, just better pathing
I recall vipper saying that human crush itself is a toggle independent of crush level so in theory you could have light crush and the ability to roadkill or the possibility of crushing trees but not people but I am uncertain myself.
#stalinwept
2 Sep 2019, 00:03 AM
#13
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I recall vipper saying that human crush itself is a toggle independent of crush level so in theory you could have light crush and the ability to roadkill or the possibility of crushing trees but not people but I am uncertain myself.
Ohh that would make a lot more sense
2 Sep 2019, 00:06 AM
#14
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Ohh that would make a lot more sense
I recall vipper saying that human crush itself is a toggle independent of crush level so in theory you could have light crush and the ability to roadkill or the possibility of crushing trees but not people but I am uncertain myself.
It has to do with rotation rate, but I know lights can't crush so maybe it has to do with light crush as well.
2 Sep 2019, 00:36 AM
#15
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
It has to do with rotation rate, but I know lights can't crush so maybe it has to do with light crush as well.
Right it's probably a mix of thing. Cause I think comet had rotation rate nerfed in order to remove crushing so that's gotta be part of it
I just remember playing a mod (i think made by someone on the balance team) where Stuart was given ability to crush more stuff but still couldn't run over models. Was a solid improvement to help at running away from mediums, but it might be too much in the fight against LVs
2 Sep 2019, 00:44 AM
#16
Posts: 5279
Right it's probably a mix of thing. Cause I think comet had rotation rate nerfed in order to remove crushing so that's gotta be part of it
I just remember playing a mod (i think made by someone on the balance team) where Stuart was given ability to crush more stuff but still couldn't run over models. Was a solid improvement to help at running away from mediums, but it might be too much in the fight against LVs
Sounds odd but is it possible I wonder to improve crush with vet? Then only after the LV phase is done the Stuart has the crush?
#stalinwept
2 Sep 2019, 02:05 AM
#17
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Sounds odd but is it possible I wonder to improve crush with vet? Then only after the LV phase is done the Stuart has the crush?
Could also add an upgrade to Stuart. Maybe nerf default durability and transfer some of it to the upgrade, which gives it the crush
2 Sep 2019, 02:55 AM
#18
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
If I were to buff the stuart in any way, I would start by removing its anomalous 1.5 second aim time. It just makes the stuart feel clumsy.
2 Sep 2019, 11:25 AM
#19
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Crush human is different independent value with light, medium, heavy crush.
Valentine/T70 used to be able to crush humans and SU-76 can still crush human (as far as I can remember).
Valentine/T70 used to be able to crush humans and SU-76 can still crush human (as far as I can remember).
2 Sep 2019, 14:31 PM
#20
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Crush human is different independent value with light, medium, heavy crush.
Valentine/T70 used to be able to crush humans and SU-76 can still crush human (as far as I can remember).
Thank you for the info, yes i believe su76 can still crush
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