Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments

that if it has a cross it should cost more ? yea sometimes i forget that

You also sometimes forget that its supposed to be balanced ww2 RTS, not reverse Wolfenstein for ubermensch lovers.

ober LMG is a much better upgrade than worse g43 and 1 more men, just for comparison, g 43 for green cost 45 mun and are better than pfusi and the cons upgrade give cd bonus in cover, bonus experience and reduced reinforce cost for 50 mun, u would have a point if the upgraed was soo good that it justified the base cost in mp, it is not

again they literally are 1 more men and worse g 43 for 90 muni


i think that was the point for the mod team, a substitute for volks , right now they cost too much for their dps , either reduced price or increase dps , if they want to make them different just copy paste rifle garand


and again the logic of being eraly so they need to be bad is stupid, do ass green, pathfinder and ass eng perform as bad a pfusi cause they come early ? they are not elite units, they are worse penals

While I'm not sure if the Panzerfusilier design is perfect, they are a very good unit. They come out slightly worse than Volksgrenadiere, but scale way better with their upgrades while also giving the option for an early AT nade. They're cheaper to reinforce than Riflemen (which you compared them to), and also they have six men.

In your comparison with Grenadiere, you're also neglecting that they have a higher health pool. Grenadiere have 4*80/0,91 = ~351 effective health, Panzerfusiliere have 6*80/1(is that correct? not quite sure) = 480 health, so about a third more while Grenadiere do "only" 10-20% more damage with the upgrade, depending on the range. Also the DPS dropoff with model loss is less on Panzerfusiliere due to the squad size.
It is debatable if this justifies the 45 mun that you pay, but with the upgrade they are very cost effective. Also, few other factions can generade such a big one the move wipe potential as OKW with G43 Panzerfusiliere.

And to your point if scaling and utility should be considered for pricing: Yes, they should. This was also the reason why Conscripts were pretty shitty for the last years, because they were "versatile". Which they are. The problem is that you need to pay extra for that versatility, which caused a ton of other issues.
You also defended the Volks vs Riflemen balance in a previous discussion because you could bar up Riflemen which would help in the long run. So in other discussions you also added the perspective of scaling to unit performance and cost.

cause most doc units are elite ? most doc unit comes with nades and upgrades already unlocked they just need to pay

Okay? What does this have to do with fussies vs. volks? Fussies are cp0, none of those "elites" are

As for the cp0 squads, name one that scales as well as fusiliers. Or that has a scare ready to go. There aren't any

While I'm not sure if the Panzerfusilier design is perfect, they are a very good unit. They come out slightly worse than Volksgrenadiere, but scale way better with their upgrades while also giving the option for an early AT nade. They're cheaper to reinforce than Riflemen (which you compared them to), and also they have six men.

In your comparison with Grenadiere, you're also neglecting that they have a higher health pool. Grenadiere have 4*80/0,91 = ~351 effective health, Panzerfusiliere have 6*80/1(is that correct? not quite sure) = 480 health, so about a third more while Grenadiere do "only" 10-20% more damage with the upgrade, depending on the range. Also the DPS dropoff with model loss is less on Panzerfusiliere due to the squad size.
It is debatable if this justifies the 45 mun that you pay, but with the upgrade they are very cost effective. Also, few other factions can generade such a big one the move wipe potential as OKW with G43 Panzerfusiliere.

And to your point if scaling and utility should be considered for pricing: Yes, they should. This was also the reason why Conscripts were pretty shitty for the last years, because they were "versatile". Which they are. The problem is that you need to pay extra for that versatility, which caused a ton of other issues.
You also defended the Volks vs Riflemen balance in a previous discussion because you could bar up Riflemen which would help in the long run. So in other discussions you also added the perspective of scaling to unit performance and cost.

u forgot that p fusi are 5 men not 6, the 6th comes only with upgrade

and I did I mean it's 90 munitions for the upgrage i don't know where u get the 45 muni cost

Okay? What does this have to do with fussies vs. volks? Fussies are cp0, none of those "elites" are

As for the cp0 squads, name one that scales as well as fusiliers. Or that has a scare ready to go. There aren't any

assault eng and pathfinder

assault eng and pathfinder

Uhh wrong, no snares... Maybe they scale as well in your opinion, but still waiting for the explanation on what it has to do with volks vs. fussies

Fusiliers are great. Idk how anyone could think they're not good enough

ober LMG is a much better upgrade than worse g43 and 1 more men, just for comparison, g 43 for green cost 45 mun and are better than pfusi and the cons upgrade give cd bonus in cover, bonus experience and reduced reinforce cost for 50 mun, u would have a point if the upgraed was soo good that it justified the base cost in mp, it is not

again they literally are 1 more men and worse g 43 for 90 muni


i think that was the point for the mod team, a substitute for volks , right now they cost too much for their dps , either reduced price or increase dps , if they want to make them different just copy paste rifle garand


and again the logic of being eraly so they need to be bad is stupid, do ass green, pathfinder and ass eng perform as bad a pfusi cause they come early ? they are not elite units, they are worse penals

Ober MG34 is available to a significantly more expensive infantry and much later in the game.

You are complaining about G43 upgrade but it actually allows PFs to beat Penals in a fair fight in the early game, gives PFs one additional model, extra sight and good mobile dps which makes wiping retreating squads easier. Cost-wise everything is in its place. 280 MP inf with 90 MU is a good price for a good squad. Compared to the past PFs' performance, PFs are just more flexible and available earlier.

Refering to your example:
Assgrens are super strong with their sprint and early timing, if you sprint you win any engagement with any infantry unit in the early game except for Assengies maybe, but they don't have sprint. Pathfinders only benefit from slow long range engagements unless you upgrade them with BARs and so do PFs until you upgrade them with G43s. All of these units are either not flexible being short/long range specialists, lack snare and have high entry cost. I think that Assgrens should have their sprint behind vet 1. I know that they are supposed to allow T1 skip or early army supplementation, but they are comparable to cons with PPSh, who are currently coming at 3CP (soon to be 2CP). I think it was a classic example of powercreep with the Assgrens having a sprint available at vet 0.

Uhh wrong, no snares... Maybe they scale as well in your opinion, but still waiting for the explanation on what it has to do with volks vs. fussies

Fusiliers are great. Idk how anyone could think they're not good enough

uh wrong no mines, flamer, scooped rifle, art call in, radio map hack .........

literally the mod team as it's planning to reduce the price already

btw again u could just read my post in page one,i explain why they are bad there

btw i know u see any axis unit op , duh it has a cross on it,just looking at ur post history tell me all i need to know

Ober MG34 is available to a significantly more expensive infantry and much later in the game.

You are complaining about G43 upgrade but it actually allows PFs to beat Penals in a fair fight in the early game, gives PFs one additional model, extra sight and good mobile dps which makes wiping retreating squads easier. Cost-wise everything is in its place. 280 MP inf with 90 MU is a good price for a good squad. Compared to the past PFs' performance, PFs are just more flexible and available earlier.

Refering to your example:
Assgrens are super strong with their sprint and early timing, if you sprint you win any engagement with any infantry unit in the early game except for Assengies maybe, but they don't have sprint. Pathfinders only benefit from slow long range engagements unless you upgrade them with BARs and so do PFs until you upgrade them with G43s. All of these units are either not flexible being short/long range specialists, lack snare and have high entry cost. I think that Assgrens should have their sprint behind vet 1. I know that they are supposed to allow T1 skip or early army supplementation, but they are comparable to cons with PPSh, who are currently coming at 3CP (soon to be 2CP). I think it was a classic example of powercreep with the Assgrens having a sprint available at vet 0.

it's u who said to compare them to those units, then u backpadle when i do ?

im not complaining about the g 43 upgrade im complaining about the base mp cost of the unit, why it's the only unit that needs to pay for the extra men twice (in the base cost and the upgrade)?

and no compared to previous PF they have 1 less men

and so what? those unit are priced fairly and it's not like fusi wins at all range, they have strictly worse dps than volks at mid and close range

uh wrong no mines, flamer, scooped rifle, art call in, radio map hack .........

What the hell are you talking about?

Cuz you've NEVER disagreed with the mod team before. No that never happened....

btw i know u see any axis unit op , duh it has a cross on it,just looking at ur post history tell me all i need to know

Go look through it then. Cause you're wicked wrong lol. Can you stay in topic just for once?

And YOU calling anyone biased is just hilarious

What the hell are you talking about?



Go look through it then. Cause you're wicked wrong lol

considering u pretty much are present in any nerf x axis unit to ask for more nerf and present in any nerf x allied unit to show it's not op (and fail as u don't have arguments) and then the mod teams nerf said unit u so feverishly tried to defend i say yes u might be a little biased (churchill, howy, pack )

What the hell are you talking about?

Cuz you've NEVER disagreed with the mod team before. No that never happened....

well yes ? i can agree on something and disagree on other what's the problem ?

well yes ? i can agree on something and disagree on other what's the problem ?

You just trolled me for disagreeing with them on fusilier price adjustment...

So because I don't agree with you about all nerfs, im biased towards allies? And you're making shit up again, i agreed with multiple nerfs to the Pak howy

But again, you can't leave it be. This has nothing to do with fusiliers, who for some reason you keep comparing to squads that are nothing like them

assault eng and pathfinder

Funny you mentioned these, because assault engies are known for scaling terribly bad into mid and late game and pathfinders are 100% reliant on stock BARs as their own scaling isn't enough.

Funny you mentioned these, because assault engies are known for scaling terribly bad into mid and late game and pathfinders are 100% reliant on stock BARs as their own scaling isn't enough.

seems strange considering their vet and utility

and don't p fusi need upgrade to scale ? or are u saying to give them the upgrade for free ?

You just trolled me for disagreeing with them on fusilier price adjustment...

So because I don't agree with you about all nerfs, im biased towards allies? And you're making shit up again, i agreed with multiple nerfs to the Pak howy

But again, you can't leave it be. This has nothing to do with fusiliers, who for some reason you keep comparing to squads that are nothing like them

i compared them to volks and rifle and people start saying "well other tier 0 unit don't scale well" which is false

any way u could just read my post in page one. the explanation is there

worse than and volks but cost same as rifle , the snare argument does not justify the 30-20 mp cost and worse performance ( would u call rifle a good unit if it got the snare at vet 0 and it costed 300 mp ?)

seems strange considering their vet and utility

and don't p fusi need upgrade to scale ? or are u saying to give them the upgrade for free ?

For like the 3rd time why are you comparing fusiliers to Pathfinders and Ass engies?

Edit: i see your latest post

Your Rifleman example makes no sense. What's my cp0 alternative to rifleman? I have a scout or an engineer squad, neither serves as an alternate mainline

Snare, scaling, multiple upgrade paths, justifies the cost. Not just snares

worse than and volks but cost same as rifle , the snare argument does not justify the 30-20 mp cost and worse performance ( would u call rifle a good unit if it got the snare at vet 0 and it costed 300 mp ?)

Rifleman have to spend 300mp and 30 fu just to unlock their upgrades, that's not a great argument either

For like the 3rd time why are you comparing fusiliers to Pathfinders and Ass engies?

Edit: i see your latest post

Your Rifleman example makes no sense. What's my cp0 alternative to rifleman? I have a scout or an engineer squad, neither serves as an alternate mainline

Snare, scaling, multiple upgrade paths, justifies the cost. Not just snares



Rifleman have to spend 300mp and 30 fu just to unlock their upgrades, that's not a great argument either

leaving aside the teching cost of okw (again axis has the cost put in the tech)

is there any reason why they should be worse than volks ? at least give them the same rifle

they are both worse in dps and cost more

For like the 3rd time why are you comparing fusiliers to Pathfinders and Ass engies?

Edit: i see your latest post

Your Rifleman example makes no sense. What's my cp0 alternative to rifleman? I have a scout or an engineer squad, neither serves as an alternate mainline

Snare, scaling, multiple upgrade paths, justifies the cost. Not just snares



Rifleman have to spend 300mp and 30 fu just to unlock their upgrades, that's not a great argument either

For Pfusi you pay total of 300mp 60 fuel to unlock your upgrade tho. (Cuz T1 rush will be dominated by allied LVs)

is there any reason why they should be worse than volks ? at least give them the same rifle

they are both worse in dps and cost more

*In the beginning of the game

They scale better. You telling me that a 30 Muni difference in upgrade cost is all that's needed to account for how good Fusis are late game?

Imo that's complete bs

For Pfusi you pay total of 300mp 60 fuel to unlock your upgrade tho. (Cuz T1 rush will be dominated by allied LVs)

No you don't. You pay that much to unlock mechanised tech AND fusilier upgrades

You pay 300mp and 30 fuel for JUST Rifleman upgrades. Nothing else