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russian armor

Volley Fire to Covering Fire

26 Aug 2019, 18:25 PM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Volley Fire's suppression has proven nigh unbalanceable. Either the suppression fires and you win the engagement, or you lose 40 (iirc) munitions and probably lose your RETs too.

So why not ditch the suppression entirely?

Covering Fire serves a similar role (debuffing closing squads), but unlike Volley Fire it's an affordable utility skill rather than a massive gamble.

Thoughts?
26 Aug 2019, 20:14 PM
#2
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 888

They should just get rid if the ability and make them a stock 5 man sqaud for like 210 man power, how hard is that?
26 Aug 2019, 20:24 PM
#3
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 20:14 PMCODGUY
They should just get rid if the ability and make them a stock 5 man sqaud for like 210 man power, how hard is that?


Also give them merge. It fits the concept of RET's being sent to the front to replace losses.
26 Aug 2019, 20:51 PM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Also give them merge. It fits the concept of RET's being sent to the front to replace losses.

R.E. stands for rear echelon and are unit that where sent to the front. They represent the non combatant logistic support troops that where caught in the fight when the front-line collapsed during the Ardennes assault and had to defend themselves.
26 Aug 2019, 22:33 PM
#5
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 20:51 PMVipper

R.E. stands for rear echelon and are unit that where sent to the front. They represent the non combatant logistic support troops that where caught in the fight when the front-line collapsed during the Ardennes assault and had to defend themselves.


All of whom were basically trained soldiers with training equal to or better than the average German Volksgrenadier by that stage in the war. Non combat troops were very commonly pressed into fighting units as replacements.

I quite like the idea of them becoming merge capable units. It would require a few adjustments to squad size and veterancy bonuses though.

Make them a 5 man squad from the start, remove volley fire, add merge as the vet 1 ability and remove the vet 3 additional man and add a received accuracy buff at vet 3 instead.

Now you’ll have a merge capable squad that is not capable of merging right away, which will prevent cheesy strategies but still opens up the possibilities for more Rear Echelon use as a support squad and less use as just a bazooka holder.
26 Aug 2019, 22:56 PM
#6
avatar of The_Flying_Flail

Posts: 53

I don't think merge should be added to rear echelon. Merging with squads is what makes soviets unique. To add it to another faction by default would cease its uniqueness. Adding a 5th man by defualt without volley fire dosent seem to be the way to go either. Iff anything soivet engineers could use a 5th man but again this is a uniqe ability only for RE at vet3. Probably the best way to resolve the solution is to make the volley fire ability more consistent to match the rather expensive price of 40 munitions. Perhapse you could leave the rng factor of the ability and lower the price a bit to compensate for such an ability.
26 Aug 2019, 23:29 PM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



All of whom were basically trained soldiers with training equal to or better than the average German Volksgrenadier by that stage in the war. Non combat troops were very commonly pressed into fighting units as replacements.

I quite like the idea of them becoming merge capable units. It would require a few adjustments to squad size and veterancy bonuses though.

Make them a 5 man squad from the start, remove volley fire, add merge as the vet 1 ability and remove the vet 3 additional man and add a received accuracy buff at vet 3 instead.

Now you’ll have a merge capable squad that is not capable of merging right away, which will prevent cheesy strategies but still opens up the possibilities for more Rear Echelon use as a support squad and less use as just a bazooka holder.

My point is completely different. R.E. in game represent the non combat infatry forced to fight when the line collapsed in Ardennes
27 Aug 2019, 00:26 AM
#8
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 23:29 PMVipper

My point is completely different. R.E. in game represent the non combat infatry forced to fight when the line collapsed in Ardennes


What the unit represents to you is entirely your opinion. Unless you were in the room at relic five years ago when they were designing the USF faction your opinion isn’t any more valid than anyone else’s opinion.

Anyways, the idea that they are being sent as reinforcements or are caught in the fight or are improvised units thrown together as a last ditch doesn’t really matter, it’s all just your opinion and that doesn’t make anyone else’s point invalid just because they have a different viewpoint.

It also is entirely possible that BOTH opinions are valid and not mutually exclusive.

Example: Your starting REs were caught at the front, but ones that you choose to build are sent as reinforcements. See? You can both be right.
27 Aug 2019, 00:29 AM
#9
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785

Don't fix what isn't broken. For 20 munitions and some good positioning it can pin down a squad at close range, and it's the only suppression USF will get before teching (and vehicle teching if going Captain). It's a good enough ability that sees a lot more use now that it doesn't function as a suicide button.

Covering fire, on the other hand, is nigh useless at any stage of the game, and certainly not worth the munitions. I never use it and neither have I ever seen anyone use it with any of the units it comes with.

This would be a nerf and a totally unnecessary one considering rear echelons perform absolutely fine as is.
27 Aug 2019, 00:39 AM
#10
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

Don't fix what isn't broken. For 20 munitions and some good positioning it can pin down a squad at close range, and it's the only suppression USF will get before teching (and vehicle teching if going Captain). It's a good enough ability that sees a lot more use now that it doesn't function as a suicide button.

Covering fire, on the other hand, is nigh useless at any stage of the game, and certainly not worth the munitions. I never use it and neither have I ever seen anyone use it with any of the units it comes with.

This would be a nerf and a totally unnecessary one considering rear echelons perform absolutely fine as is.


I think one of the main reasons covering fire isn’t used more often is because it’s only on Cavalry Riflemen, who are much better suited to closing the distance and doing actual damage at close range. It’s not a bad ability, it’s just not well suited to that unit. As such, I think the way covering fire works as an ability is more suited to REs.

Enlighten me if it’s on other units. As far as I can remember it’s only on Cavalry Riflemen.


Of course your statement of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” is totally valid too. Lol
27 Aug 2019, 01:57 AM
#11
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

I always felt like any squad should be able to merge with units of the exact same type (Rifles to rifles, volks to volks, etc.) . Cons merge for any unit remaining unique
27 Aug 2019, 02:35 AM
#12
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

I think that's an excellent idea. It removes the annoying elements of it never suppressing or suppressing too fast with BARs or 1919s, and unlike cav rifles, the ability wouldn't be entirely useless on echelons. Volley fire is only 20 muni btw but you're basically just paying to make your REs die faster so yeah.



Also give them merge. It fits the concept of RET's being sent to the front to replace losses.

IMO they don't need merge. The way I understand it they're more cooks and truck drivers than inexperienced replacements anyway.
27 Aug 2019, 02:41 AM
#13
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1

I've been using volley fire and I find that when it's timed right with the proper support it can be real effective in the first 2-4 minutes. I think they're fine and REs already do too much when you pick the flamethrower or rifle grenade commanders
27 Aug 2019, 03:23 AM
#14
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Don't fuck with merge please. It's bad enough that volks came along and rendered cons as a joke at their own job, don't let another squad start merging as well....
27 Aug 2019, 08:44 AM
#15
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 320

Don't fuck with merge please. It's bad enough that volks came along and rendered cons as a joke at their own job, don't let another squad start merging as well....


Captain and Major have 2 RETs merged into them out of the gate :snfDevm:

Even if RETs could merge, I feel like their 25 reinforcement cost would make the ability underused.
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