OKW: Valiant Assault

First, running frontally into an MG even with sprint is rarely a good idea, unless it's a Maxim, then it can work.
Second Falls are great units for wiping and decrewing because they have decent mid and long range DPS, so they can wipe/decrew squads at high sight range. Shocks won't wipe if the enemy squad leaves close range, because their DPS drops off drastically

And as DerbyHat established, moving the squad will cancel firing, so "running" it down is apparently not an option. You need the mid/far DPS if Fallschirmjäger and Volks.

or the mid far dps of penal and cos

or the mid far dps of penal and cos

Not really sure how that 8 DPS of penals or 6 dps of cons long range compares to 20 DPS of falls.

Its still long way apart even including FMR and VA.

or the mid far dps of penal and cos

I know you're pro Axis, but there's no need to clutter the thread with that. I obviously always targeted For mother Russia as well, but thought that the Luftwaffe commander will probably get the biggest buff, so we will see it more often than the SOV B4 commander. And say what you want but while Penals are very capable units, Fallschirmjäger do have way better mid/long range DPS than Penals.

Not sure what you mean with "cos", if you mean Conscrips than that's plain wrong.

I know you're pro Axis, but there's no need to clutter the thread with that. I obviously always targeted For mother Russia as well, but thought that the Luftwaffe commander will probably get the biggest buff, so we will see it more often than the SOV B4 commander. And say what you want but while Penals are very capable units, Fallschirmjäger do have way better mid/long range DPS than Penals.

Not sure what you mean with "cos", if you mean Conscrips than that's plain wrong.

and i know u are fan boy ,no need to hide it i mean u literally said "There are more and similar abilities in other factions ("For mother Russia" for example), but I'm not sure if the buffs are comparable. Also, these abilities tend to share the same fate that Valiant Assault had - that is being stuck in bad commanders. But unlike Valiant Assault, I don't think that the commanders get a significant buff."

and u ddin0t even ever us the ability as u didn't know they can't shoot and sprint

yesterday i got called an allied fan boy by an axis fan boy

how can i be both ?

we never see the air bone commander for okw, but se did see the b4 commander in tournaments, it has good roster of kv 1(which is getting buffed, and is already a mini Churchill), recon, shoock troops
and the very situational b4(for 1vs1 for team game is very good)

airborne has defensive fort , stuka smoke, falls (still a jk not even worth comparing to shock) and stuka support

First, running frontally into an MG even with sprint is rarely a good idea, unless it's a Maxim, then it can work.
Second Falls are great units for wiping and decrewing because they have decent mid and long range DPS, so they can wipe/decrew squads at high sight range. Shocks won't wipe if the enemy squad leaves close range, because their DPS drops off drastically

And as DerbyHat established, moving the squad will cancel firing, so "running" it down is apparently not an option. You need the mid/far DPS if Fallschirmjäger and Volks.

Spring on a squad that doesn't even get suppressed in many occasions or has a smoke with armor will always run down the MG. No you do not always need the long range DPS. If that is the case why bother using Falls when you can do better with Obers.

and i know u are fan boy ,no need to hide it i mean u literally said "There are more and similar abilities in other factions ("For mother Russia" for example), but I'm not sure if the buffs are comparable. Also, these abilities tend to share the same fate that Valiant Assault had - that is being stuck in bad commanders. But unlike Valiant Assault, I don't think that the commanders get a significant buff."

and u ddin0t even ever us the ability as u didn't know they can't shoot and sprint

yesterday i got called an allied fan boy by an axis fan boy

how can i be both ?

we never see the air bone commander for okw, but se did see the b4 commander in tournaments, it has good roster of kv 1(which is getting buffed, and is already a mini Churchill), recon, shoock troops
and the very situational b4(for 1vs1 for team game is very good)

airborne has defensive fort , stuka smoke, falls (still a jk not even worth comparing to shock) and stuka support

The B4 strat is super cheesy and you know that. The B4 commander itself is average and not part of the current meta. And the reason that we did not see the Luftwaffe commander is due to the fact that first it's average at best at the moment (but might come back into the meta with the new patch), and second that there was the almighty Spec Ops doctrine that was picked almost every time in the tournament. Overwatch is also a good commander that did not get picked, that does not make Overwatch bad. It just means that Spec Ops is better. Same thing might also have happened to the B4 commander.
The fact that I did not focus on it is because I don't own it, so it's hard to judge. Also the KV1 buff does not directly target the B4 commander. It could be back into the meta as a side effect, but the Fallschirmjäger rework is way more likely to give the respective commander more survivability.

Spring on a squad that doesn't even get suppressed in many occasions or has a smoke with armor will always run down the MG. No you do not always need the long range DPS. If that is the case why bother using Falls when you can do better with Obers.

That's missing the point. The reason that Fallschirmjäger get reworked is that Obersoldaten are usually the better choice. I'm talking about problems that might come up after the patch, when Falls will likely be better or have their own niche.
Also sprinting does not reduce suppression. You can flank more easily, but the main problem is that the OKW blob runs frontally into your MG and kills the gunner, which is your MG gone. Shocks can't do that, they need to run around the MG which gives you a few more seconds to react. Shocks also can't snare, so you could drive a vehicle very close to push the models around and deal more damage.

Vet 5 Falls with Valiant Assault and the new camo bonus get 1,3*1,25*1,5 = 244% bonus accuracy.

Make sure to use it next patch.

That's missing the point. The reason that Fallschirmjäger get reworked is that Obersoldaten are usually the better choice. I'm talking about problems that might come up after the patch, when Falls will likely be better or have their own niche.
Also sprinting does not reduce suppression. You can flank more easily, but the main problem is that the OKW blob runs frontally into your MG and kills the gunner, which is your MG gone. Shocks can't do that, they need to run around the MG which gives you a few more seconds to react. Shocks also can't snare, so you could drive a vehicle very close to push the models around and deal more damage.

Spriting does not reduce suppression. It reduces the time being exposed to suppression. Shocks also have the body armor to evade hits. I would rather face 3volks+1falls than 2 shocks.

Spriting does not reduce suppression. It reduces the time being exposed to suppression. Shocks also have the body armor to evade hits. I would rather face 3volks+1falls than 2 shocks.

Yes, that's basically what I also said. Still Shocks can not wipe an MG frontally and you have a few more seconds to get your MG out. You barely have time to react if a blob comes in at max sight range and shoots the gunner.
If it's just about sprint please explain to me how you frontally Ourah an MG42 with conscripts without getting suppressed.

Yes, that's basically what I also said. Still Shocks can not wipe an MG frontally and you have a few more seconds to get your MG out. You barely have time to react if a blob comes in at max sight range and shoots the gunner.
If it's just about sprint please explain to me how you frontally Ourah an MG42 with conscripts without getting suppressed.

Cons get suppressed with the first burst pinned in the second. Shocks don't. If OKW is freely blobbing and rushing you after early game then something is wrong.

SOV has the Katyusha, doctrinal napalm,doctrinal shocks to face the blob and send in the nuclear nade, fear propaganda bullshit etc.
USF has Scott,Pack Howi, doctrinal CalliOP
UKF has Centaur strafe,doctrinal Land Matress etc.

Even with valiant assault the blob have to stop to shoot. You got your window of opportunity.

Cons get suppressed with the first burst pinned in the second. Shocks don't. If OKW is freely blobbing and rushing you after early game then something is wrong.

SOV has the Katyusha, doctrinal napalm,doctrinal shocks to face the blob and send in the nuclear nade, fear propaganda bullshit etc.
USF has Scott,Pack Howi, doctrinal CalliOP
UKF has Centaur strafe,doctrinal Land Matress etc.

Even with valiant assault the blob have to stop to shoot. You got your window of opportunity.

Shocks can also get supressed really quickly. Nobody doubted that a sprint would not be of use. But apart from that that still does not nullify my argument that they can't frontally wipe an MG, since they need to close in first.
Also blobbing is a viable tactic from low to high rank matchups, your argument is pretty pointless and not backed up.

Honestly, I already covered most of this, so I'll just make a short version:
Mortars/howitzer won't work against fast moving infantry, rocket artillery is a real gamble and luck based, Scott micro intensive when you need your eye on your infantry.
This leaves us with Shocks for SOV, not sure if they will work reliably though. They can soak a lot of damage, but you need damage dealers in the back to deal with the enemy infantry. Also I do hope that you see a design issue with the fact that your opponent's commander pick forces you to counterpick a very specific strategy. And good luck if you already locked in a commander as SOV by the second CP.
USF has basically no real counter.
UKF has Centaur with the risk of getting snared and killed by OKW P4. I hope that land matress was a joke.

The "window of opportunity" is usually shorter than the time you need to land your artillery. This means that you need to rely on your opponent's mistakes rather than outplaying him.

Shocks can also get supressed really quickly. Nobody doubted that a sprint would not be of use. But apart from that that still does not nullify my argument that they can't frontally wipe an MG, since they need to close in first.
Also blobbing is a viable tactic from low to high rank matchups, your argument is pretty pointless and not backed up.

Honestly, I already covered most of this, so I'll just make a short version:
Mortars/howitzer won't work against fast moving infantry, rocket artillery is a real gamble and luck based, Scott micro intensive when you need your eye on your infantry.
This leaves us with Shocks for SOV, not sure if they will work reliably though. They can soak a lot of damage, but you need damage dealers in the back to deal with the enemy infantry. Also I do hope that you see a design issue with the fact that your opponent's commander pick forces you to counterpick a very specific strategy. And good luck if you already locked in a commander as SOV by the second CP.
USF has basically no real counter.
UKF has Centaur with the risk of getting snared and killed by OKW P4. I hope that land matress was a joke.

The "window of opportunity" is usually shorter than the time you need to land your artillery. This means that you need to rely on your opponent's mistakes rather than outplaying him.

Unfortunately, like FMR its a blobbing ability and not so much can be done. Maybe strongly decreasing their accuracy during the effect so it can't wipe so easily squads.

Cons get suppressed with the first burst pinned in the second. Shocks don't. If OKW is freely blobbing and rushing you after early game then something is wrong.

SOV has the Katyusha, doctrinal napalm,doctrinal shocks to face the blob and send in the nuclear nade, fear propaganda bullshit etc.
USF has Scott,Pack Howi, doctrinal CalliOP
UKF has Centaur strafe,doctrinal Land Matress etc.

Even with valiant assault the blob have to stop to shoot. You got your window of opportunity.

I'd just like to point out that the OKW blob will wipe your entire army before the land mattress even fucking sets up to fire, and then you'll realize they're inside it's massive minimum range already anyway, or you'll shoot like 3 rockets in 2 seconds and he'll just sprint past the barrage if he's got reaction times faster than a potato.

I guess I am the only person who welcomes the blobbing opponent in this forum. Is blobbing really hurting you that much ? Jeez.

I guess I am the only person who welcomes the blobbing opponent in this forum. Is blobbing really hurting you that much ? Jeez.

Believe me, blobbing is usually the most powerful strategy in teamgames (2v2 including) at the top levels, even if you play vs the "1v1 gods"

The problem is that some people think "a blob is a blob. its just a noob strat", and that is complete BS.

There is smart and good blobbers where it actually requires a lot of micro and there is the low ELO blobbers who just get a super big blob and send it into horrible manpower trade engagements.

i don't understand how this discussions shifted to how op blobbing is once again

I agree with you but there are ways to deal with the blobs too .

snip.

Just in case, i'm gonna clear some misconceptions or hyperbole.

Spriting does not reduce suppression. It reduces the time being exposed to suppression. Shocks also have the body armor to evade hits.

Armor and received accuracy is irrelevant in regards suppressing SINGLE squads. Hits only matter when having to suppress multiple squads through AoE.
Interesting bit (theory), received accuracy is way better than armor regarding suppression, cause armor just means it "negates" damage (think of tanks) but you are still getting hit. So Shocks splash more AoE suppression than other squads with higher RA modifiers.

Cons get suppressed with the first burst pinned in the second. Shocks don't. If OKW is freely blobbing and rushing you after early game then something is wrong.

Unless you are using smoke, Cons (plural) should actually be harder to suppress, specially if they either lose models or if they are vet3.

SOV has the Katyusha, doctrinal napalm,doctrinal shocks to face the blob and send in the nuclear nade, fear propaganda bullshit etc.
USF has Scott,Pack Howi, doctrinal CalliOP
UKF has Centaur strafe,doctrinal Land Matress etc.

All those with the exception of Propaganda are there to PUNISH blobbing, but won't stop blobs. Napalm is only there to counter bad retreat paths and support weapons, the nuclear grenade only belongs to OH, OKW and UKF (they deal 100dmg, have triple the AoE 0HK)



IB4 FMR: global sprinting leans towards bad mechanic, if it can be used mid combat + if they add combat bonuses + if the faction have long range DPS units.

FMR in conscripts and Shocks is not scary. Penals CAN be scary, but i'll say it has pretty diminishing results since over 100% accuracy values (specially at vet) don't do anything at all. On the other hand, i'll say AT Penals have more use out of it.