The only thing Soviets lacks in my opinion is the ability to field a reliable AT tank out of their standard buildings.
I would like to propose a simple solution and like to know your thoughts.
The way to solve the problem would be to swap T-34/76 with T-34/85. Make a 76 version a anti infantry call in and let us build the 85 version. Adjust the cost of course and even get rid of ram or just leave it only on T-34/76.
Tweak T-34/85 so its equal against PzIV or only slightly better (not sure if this is not the case right now) that would include making reload time a bit better.
Cost should be 240/125.
T34 solution?
25 Oct 2013, 09:34 AM
#1
Posts: 1439
25 Oct 2013, 10:08 AM
#2
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
The only thing Soviets lacks in my opinion is the ability to field a reliable AT tank out of their standard buildings.
not true at all. su85 is the best non-doctrinal AT tank. if you choose to go t3, youre getting more AI focused tanks. thats not to say the t34 is useless against tanks though, it just needs support. use it with guards and/or zis and dont fight head on and they are effective and cheap.
if t3 got a t34 thats better than a p4, the only tank a p4 could beat would be a t70. i really dont think thats a necessary change.
25 Oct 2013, 10:17 AM
#3
Posts: 249
I think T34/76 is in perfect state at the moment. Zis+T34/76 is a powerful combo. Throw mark target in the mix and you have a very decent antitank capability.
25 Oct 2013, 10:44 AM
#4
Posts: 1439
not true at all. su85 is the best non-doctrinal AT tank. if you choose to go t3, youre getting more AI focused tanks. thats not to say the t34 is useless against tanks though, it just needs support. use it with guards and/or zis and dont fight head on and they are effective and cheap.
if t3 got a t34 thats better than a p4, the only tank a p4 could beat would be a t70. i really dont think thats a necessary change.
SU-85 is not a tank. T-34/76 is only decent against PIV and only in packs.
25 Oct 2013, 10:59 AM
#5
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
SU-85 is not a tank
all you can do is nit pick at my wording rather than respond to my post? youre right, the su85 is a tank destroyer. however, youre asking for an AT tank, which is exactly what tank destroyers are designed to do. the only thing its lacking is a turret, but its compensated by having better range and sight radius than the german tanks. if you use it properly, its lack of a turret isnt an issue.
25 Oct 2013, 11:08 AM
#6
Posts: 1439
You didn't get my point.
I'd like to have decent AT tank option from my core building. Yes.
Why is it ok for Germans to have both AT and AI options available to build in both tiers and not for Soviets?
I'd like to have decent AT tank option from my core building. Yes.
Why is it ok for Germans to have both AT and AI options available to build in both tiers and not for Soviets?
25 Oct 2013, 11:14 AM
#7
Posts: 135
I don't think the T34-85 should be in t3.
I think the T34-85 (as it should be balanced) compares better to a panther than a panzer 4. It should remain as a doctrinal call in since it really does not fit in the soviet tech tree. The only way I can see it fitting in the tech tree is as some kind of upgrade or high tier unlock.
Also what wooof said. Keep in mind that presently, the axis stug assault gun is not very good.
Edit: T34s are good against anything short of panthers or tigers, and they are cheaper than panzer 4s.
I think the T34-85 (as it should be balanced) compares better to a panther than a panzer 4. It should remain as a doctrinal call in since it really does not fit in the soviet tech tree. The only way I can see it fitting in the tech tree is as some kind of upgrade or high tier unlock.
Also what wooof said. Keep in mind that presently, the axis stug assault gun is not very good.
Edit: T34s are good against anything short of panthers or tigers, and they are cheaper than panzer 4s.
"The devil is not as terrible as he is painted" - Joseph Stalin, 1941 in reference to the German war machine.
25 Oct 2013, 11:27 AM
#8
Posts: 688
You didn't get my point.
I'd like to have decent AT tank option from my core building. Yes.
Why is it ok for Germans to have both AT and AI options available to build in both tiers and not for Soviets?
Because the game was designed to present the two sides with different challenges.
The soviet challenge is that they will have overall technical inferiority, but numerical superiority. The german challenge is the opposite situation.
I can see the point in that design and do not wish for both sides to become much the same.
It doesn't rule out tweaks to the various units and gameplay, though.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
25 Oct 2013, 12:23 PM
#9
Posts: 978
I don't think the T34-85 should be in t3.
I think the T34-85 (as it should be balanced) compares better to a panther than a panzer 4.
Breaking news: T-34/85s performed worse than Panzer IVs in reality and much worse than Panthers. If they ever buff it´s AT capabilities to be close to the Panther, count me out of the game. What´s needed is cheaper and thus more T-34/85s, not stronger ones.
Solution should be to make it a global(200mp, 150fuel) or single upgrade(100 ammo) for the T-34/76. The empty doctrinal slot could be filled with KV-1s or other stuff.
25 Oct 2013, 12:43 PM
#10
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedSo, to paraphrase, you are suggesting T34/85s from T3, that are "better" than PIVs, for -80MP/+10Fuel of PIV cost?
Better how, exactly?
Better how, exactly?
25 Oct 2013, 12:49 PM
#11
Posts: 1439
Sorry my bad. MP cost should be equal.
25 Oct 2013, 12:54 PM
#12
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedOk, so 10Fuel more than PIV.
But Im still unclear by what you specifically mean by "better than PIV".
Can you explain that, please?
But Im still unclear by what you specifically mean by "better than PIV".
Can you explain that, please?
25 Oct 2013, 13:05 PM
#13
Posts: 229
Won't 3 t34's beat a Panther? I know I've killed Panthers with t34s, and I think it took 3, but you lose a t34
25 Oct 2013, 13:58 PM
#14
Posts: 182
The only thing Soviets lacks in my opinion is the ability to field a reliable AT tank out of their standard buildings.
Stopped reading there, the answer is what is an AT gun for 500 trebek
25 Oct 2013, 14:00 PM
#15
Posts: 1439
In theory 2 T-34 are enough but can be difficult to execute and you need to sacrifice one tank. I think this is what I dislike the most about idea behind T-34 design. Stupid ram ability.
@ Nullist
Slightly better than PzIV 1 on 1. Winning by a small margin. When compared in vacuum.
@ Nullist
Slightly better than PzIV 1 on 1. Winning by a small margin. When compared in vacuum.
25 Oct 2013, 14:27 PM
#16
Posts: 22
I don't think t34's should be changed or swapped out. They are a great early game shock unit, and can deal with tanks pretty decently if the soviet player takes advantage of the many, many combined armed tools they have. Between having better mines, the snare of guards, and mergeable field guns, the t34 should have enough support to handle p4's. The only problem is when heavy tanks hit the field, and the soviet player has gone t3. Against a heavy tank though, a t34 is (understandably) almost worthless, which is why in the thread about cheaper backteching for soviets, I said that su85's should eventually become viable late game, even after t3 was chosen early game.
25 Oct 2013, 14:32 PM
#17
Posts: 760
The problem is the Soviet teching and the price of at guns once that is fixed as well as the T34/85 then I think the Soviet at options will be between.
25 Oct 2013, 18:32 PM
#18
Posts: 187
Breaking news: T-34/85s performed worse than Panzer IVs in reality and much worse than Panthers. If they ever buff it´s AT capabilities to be close to the Panther, count me out of the game. What´s needed is cheaper and thus more T-34/85s, not stronger ones.
On one hand I agree...and I do like how Relic has created this thematic difference between the two factions. But at what point does it become a balance issue if you're requiring the one player to micro more units to achieve the same level of unit effectiveness.
25 Oct 2013, 20:17 PM
#19
Posts: 292
Quality vs. quantity.
Of course Germans should be able to field a sizeable amount of tanks and the Soviets tanks should be armed with something bigger than a BB gun but I'm speaking in general terms. How about making the T34/85 a bit cheaper? Not thinking about the extreme price of the T34/85 it is actually a very good tank right now.
I only play team games and the only time I see Soviets go for the T34/76 is when we/they need to ram our/their heavy tanks. The SU85 is simply more cost efficient because of its range, damage and that it is easy to cover its flanks with mines and having it in the arc of fire of an AT-gun in case you get circle strafed. It's also really easy to reverse back into a safe position if your opponents get too cocky.
But then again, my opinion doesn't matter since I just belong to the majority of the players in CoH2 who actually prefer team games. Minority rules in this game (OH and 1vs1 players).
Of course Germans should be able to field a sizeable amount of tanks and the Soviets tanks should be armed with something bigger than a BB gun but I'm speaking in general terms. How about making the T34/85 a bit cheaper? Not thinking about the extreme price of the T34/85 it is actually a very good tank right now.
I only play team games and the only time I see Soviets go for the T34/76 is when we/they need to ram our/their heavy tanks. The SU85 is simply more cost efficient because of its range, damage and that it is easy to cover its flanks with mines and having it in the arc of fire of an AT-gun in case you get circle strafed. It's also really easy to reverse back into a safe position if your opponents get too cocky.
But then again, my opinion doesn't matter since I just belong to the majority of the players in CoH2 who actually prefer team games. Minority rules in this game (OH and 1vs1 players).
Ade, mein liebes Schätzelein
28 Oct 2013, 02:16 AM
#20
Posts: 6
Think the T34/76 could have munition upgrade (120mun) to version T-43/57 with the zis-4 cannon. Good against armor useles against infatry, bit like PGs.
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