120dmg threshold is silly for a tank. We are talking Su76/Puma levels of dmg and both of them have either the range or mobility to make use of them while been an early/mid vehicle.
You want to nerf AT performance? RoF or pen.
UKF September patch discussion
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29 Aug 2019, 17:59 PM
#201
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
29 Aug 2019, 18:08 PM
#202
Posts: 1794
puma/su76 are mid AT tank, they cannot be compare to churchill.
rof will affect its AI role
pen, how low can it go?
120 is still enough to counter p4 and below. it may make it harder to 1v1 panther but imo rng on paper and ingame just not so clear cut.
it shouldnt be deal same effective damage against panther anyway.
rof will affect its AI role
pen, how low can it go?
120 is still enough to counter p4 and below. it may make it harder to 1v1 panther but imo rng on paper and ingame just not so clear cut.
it shouldnt be deal same effective damage against panther anyway.
29 Aug 2019, 18:43 PM
#203
Posts: 1794
Giving further thoughts, churchill AT damages are going to come against flanking tanks or stray shots off the front. This is where its pen values are enough. Hence it shouldnt be doing 160.
29 Aug 2019, 18:47 PM
#204
Posts: 1220
The rng i played against churchills has always been more effective than it should at inflicting AT damage.With this logic panther dont need any mg and jackson armor value should be 0 why not? They dont need these features
At most i guess you need 2 extra shots to kill panther at 120. But churchill arent meant to kill panther, so that is the problem solved.
Someday this forum will give me cancer
By the way Churchill is ok
comet just needs buffs that's it
So hard to understand ?
29 Aug 2019, 19:05 PM
#205
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
There was nothing Price could have done against them damage wise. 4 stugs could not kill one churchill.
https://youtu.be/wRMQjx3DePo?t=3276
There was nothing spotting for the StuGs, forcing them to engage at their own sight range of 35 instead of using their 10 range advantage against the 40 range Churchills to get 1-2 free shots in before the Churchills could return fire.
29 Aug 2019, 19:15 PM
#206
Posts: 450
https://youtu.be/wRMQjx3DePo?t=3276
There was nothing spotting for the StuGs, forcing them to engage at their own sight range of 35 instead of using their 10 range advantage against the 40 range Churchills to get 1-2 free shots in before the Churchills could return fire.
What about price backing into a wall instead of slightly reversing to the left
Would it have gone different?
29 Aug 2019, 19:26 PM
#207
Posts: 960
/Removed, posted in wrong thread.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
30 Aug 2019, 00:12 AM
#208
Posts: 3053
Just something that's been bugging me for a while:
The AEC is objectively inferior to the puma in literally every aspect except armor (not like either have much at all lol), even its smoke is worse. I was thinking it'd be nice if the AEC had better accuracy on the move (because right now it seems pretty horrible) or better acceleration and turn speed to solidify its role as more of a flanker and rusher than the puma, which has longer range and self-spots.
The AEC is objectively inferior to the puma in literally every aspect except armor (not like either have much at all lol), even its smoke is worse. I was thinking it'd be nice if the AEC had better accuracy on the move (because right now it seems pretty horrible) or better acceleration and turn speed to solidify its role as more of a flanker and rusher than the puma, which has longer range and self-spots.
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30 Aug 2019, 00:18 AM
#209
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
So based on one game and a lot of complaining by 2-3 posters, the balance team is going to push the standard Churchill's pop-cap to more than a Panther and just four less than a KT?
Why are you saying "just 4" like that's a tiny difference? Its not a massive difference, but there probably shouldn't be
30 Aug 2019, 00:26 AM
#210
Posts: 4474
Just something that's been bugging me for a while:rember the tech cost ? If u increase it to make the AEC come later u can make it a puma clone
The AEC is objectively inferior to the puma in literally every aspect except armor (not like either have much at all lol), even its smoke is worse. I was thinking it'd be nice if the AEC had better accuracy on the move (because right now it seems pretty horrible) or better acceleration and turn speed to solidify its role as more of a flanker and rusher than the puma, which has longer range and self-spots.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
30 Aug 2019, 00:39 AM
#211
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Giving further thoughts, churchill AT damages are going to come against flanking tanks or stray shots off the front. This is where its pen values are enough. Hence it shouldnt be doing 160.
By that way, any tank that are thinking of diving, will have to take the churchill in to account, instead of getting in, kill everything and leave the churchill alone.
Stray shoot from the front is very rng dependant and happen to any tank, yet i hadn't see any other complaint outside of your theory about panther vs churchill vacuum.
30 Aug 2019, 04:32 AM
#212
Posts: 1794
because churchill have high survivability and its main counter is panther.
The dynamics of side/rear shot inflicting same 160 damage by a heavy AI tank makes no sense imo.
Hence 120 is fairer and still keep the dynamics of AI and damage sponge. It is just less effective in dishing extra damage and Ukf needs proper AT support.
This is more effective than trying to limit through popcap increase.
120 is still potent against P4 and below. Considering P4 needs rng to even pen Churchill side/rear...
The dynamics of side/rear shot inflicting same 160 damage by a heavy AI tank makes no sense imo.
Hence 120 is fairer and still keep the dynamics of AI and damage sponge. It is just less effective in dishing extra damage and Ukf needs proper AT support.
This is more effective than trying to limit through popcap increase.
120 is still potent against P4 and below. Considering P4 needs rng to even pen Churchill side/rear...
30 Aug 2019, 04:49 AM
#213
Posts: 3053
rember the tech cost ? If u increase it to make the AEC come later u can make it a puma clone
That'd be interesting. I'd still rather keep it at current cost and just up its mobility or performance on the move though, as it seems to be designed for that role but it can't really fill it as well as it should right now because its acceleration is slow as fuck for a light vehicle, it turns like a cow, and it misses almost all its shots on the move. IMO it'd be more interesting than just more expensive puma clone and you often need it right at its timing to fight axis lights anyway.
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30 Aug 2019, 05:20 AM
#214
Posts: 246
Guys, if mod team is going to make 120 dmg main gun for churchill then it will be a clone from vcoh. Remember how nobody used churchill in vcoh ( I'm not talking about AVRE or Croc)
UA
soviets
30 Aug 2019, 05:28 AM
#215
Posts: 1954
Why are you saying "just 4" like that's a tiny difference? Its not a massive difference, but there probably shouldn't be
Pushing the pop cap up to 19 still feels like an overnerf. It isn't the end of the world though, and the patch as a whole seems pretty good.
30 Aug 2019, 05:35 AM
#216
Posts: 1794
Guys, if mod team is going to make 120 dmg main gun for churchill then it will be a clone from vcoh. Remember how nobody used churchill in vcoh ( I'm not talking about AVRE or Croc)
I dont think 120 is the cause at all...vcoh ukf probably goes kangeroo piat ftw.
30 Aug 2019, 05:36 AM
#217
Posts: 393
Guys, if mod team is going to make 120 dmg main gun for churchill then it will be a clone from vcoh. Remember how nobody used churchill in vcoh ( I'm not talking about AVRE or Croc)
I think that's the goal of some people here, honestly. There are people who don't take the viablity of UKF at heart and just want it to disappear. Such is the life of a Pariah that the UKF has always been...
As far as I see it, penetration of it's main gun is the only thing that needs to go down. The video that was linked was a good example of why. The Stug is known for great armour on the front but the Churchill was blasting through them like a hot knife through butter.
30 Aug 2019, 05:45 AM
#218
Posts: 1794
Changing pen and/or rof just adds frustration of more bounced shots rng.
Dropping to 120 and keeping every thing same, you are still dealing support damages, just lesser killing blows without AT backup. 120 is still pretty lethal as long you are backed with true purposed AT.
Dropping to 120 and keeping every thing same, you are still dealing support damages, just lesser killing blows without AT backup. 120 is still pretty lethal as long you are backed with true purposed AT.
30 Aug 2019, 06:07 AM
#219
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
Aside from a Churchill changes, why did you change cromwell acceleration rather than buff unit AI performance by increasing hull mg accuracy? This tank is already very fast, maybe even the fastest between all medium tanks. But compare to p4 or a sherman it's not so effective vs infantry.
PS: maybe new extra vet 1 ability could be the best option?
Another thing, many times i heard on a forum that one of the solution to delay UKF Tommie blob was to move boolster infantry behind T1 and increase the upgrade time. Top players usually goes for boolster and then T1 to reach max efficiency of Tommies as fast as they can. Upgrade costs 35 fuel so it technicly delay a LV but in teamgames usually an ally friend delivers early counter to it. Simply it's too good for a stage it comes. At least it used to.
So, Do BalanceTeam planning to move boolster behind T1 and extend research time after Tommies accuracy changes? Honestly that could be a safe choice if new version of IS will still be overperforming.
30 Aug 2019, 06:43 AM
#220
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
because churchill have high survivability and its main counter is panther.
That is wrong.
Its main counter is volume of fire.
Getting panther to counter churchill makes as much sense as getting sniper to counter 7 man cons or osttruppen.
The dynamics of side/rear shot inflicting same 160 damage by a heavy AI tank makes no sense imo.
So universal game mechanics that treat every single unit fair make no sense to you now?
Also, why have you suddenly problem with churchill crocodile, which is limited to 1, more expensive and much more squishy.
Hence 120 is fairer and still keep the dynamics of AI and damage sponge. It is just less effective in dishing extra damage and Ukf needs proper AT support.
By that logic, lets nerf panther survivability, because it already got excellent penetration, it doesn't need as much armor/hp.
This is more effective than trying to limit through popcap increase.
I'm quite positive that making it so you can't spam it without massive sacrifices on the supporting army part is still better solution, then butchering its performance just because few people don't understand how to counter them.
120 is still potent against P4 and below. Considering P4 needs rng to even pen Churchill side/rear...
Ifs potent exclusively if you have high penetration and range advantage, churchill does not have it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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