September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

You can repair the USF buildings though

Very fair point but it highlights son balance questions.

- Static building vs mobile building
- extremely long rebuild time before being operational vs normal rebuild time as soon as you have the resources.

As USF/USF faction, you may have the resources to rebuild the tier but being forbidden to do so by a constant barraging.
Its pretty much that in 99% of cases the moment you lose some of your tier building the game is already over for you since long.

I don't know what's better, being able to rebuild in a minute your building if you have the resources somewhere else or being forced to repair the building for a really long period of time, any additional damage taken by the building during the repair enlarge the rebuild time and at the same position it was before.
That's a true question.
A 1 minute automatic rebuild time at cost of resources isn't a bad idea for USF, problem is if the officer linked to it is still alive, how does it works? If I take ostheer T1 down, Gren lost pfaust, the moment the building is rebuilt the ability comes back. Same for the OKW shwerer auto cannon.

If the tech is bounded to the buildings, then the tech squads come for free. You are welcome

If the cannon is bonded to the building, then the cannon come for free. You are welcome.

Sander stop spreading misinformation. SwererHQ is not a free area denial tool. It has costs, for the sws and the upgrade. Those costs included the actual flak gun. 120 Fu to enable mediums and heavy tanks is too pricey compared to any other faction

Lol major, brit company command, soviet t3 and t4, ostheer t3 (none of which even get heavy tanks).
Why don't we just give okw t0 tiger that costs 1 manpower? Would that finally make you happy?

And schwerer is a free area denial tool just as much as lieutenant, captain, and major are free squads.

You seem to completely miss the point. The SPHQ's primary role is indeed producing tanks, so why should OKW get bailed out with a cheap replacement if they put it on the frontline carelessly and lose it? No one is forcing players to do that, OKW doesn't need to do that to survive, it's just an option. If you want to produce tanks, and if you want to be able to produce tanks throughout the match, put it somewhere safe. A free big area denial tool should not come without substantial risks. Enemies should be rewarded for succesfully assaulting and killing it.

But OKW does need to produce tanks to survive.

You've got a unit that screams 'look at my big gun, use me to defend something' but which comes with such insane risks that no sensible player would ever build it outside their base.

It'd be better to remove the gun entirely than make it a trap.

But OKW does need to produce tanks to survive.

You've got a unit that screams 'look at my big gun, use me to defend something' but which comes with such insane risks that no sensible player would ever build it outside their base.

It'd be better to remove the gun entirely than make it a trap.

I'd be fine with that lol.

I mean, some cutoffs are so close to your own base that it's not even a big risk to have it cover them though, and if you lose it you can always just take spec ops or go for a kt and at least be not that far behind once it arrives.

I'd be fine with that lol.

I mean, some cutoffs are so close to your own base that it's not even a big risk to have it cover them though, and if you lose it you can always just take spec ops or go for a kt and at least be not that far behind once it arrives.

You can't take Spec Ops. The new patch is doing away with call-in heavies.

I think the half-SPHQ should have the JPIV in it. That way, losing the SPHQ still HURTS, but it's not such an unthinkably insane risk that no sensible player would countenance it.

Sander stop spreading misinformation. SwererHQ is not a free area denial tool. It has costs, for the sws and the upgrade. Those costs included the actual flak gun. 120 Fu to enable mediums and heavy tanks is too pricey compared to any other faction

It's comparable to USF getting free squads with their tech. The flak gun comes free with tech that you would get anyway, you don't pay extra for it, so that is pretty much the definition of free, but whatever.

Why does the JP4 cost more than an SU-85 if it's a worse tank destroyer? Can't self spot, can't reliably penetrate heavy armor like all allied TDs can, and still feels like it almost always misses when it has to rotate to a target (bug?). Its cost only makes a little sense with the old, broken, vet bonuses. Even with HEAT rounds it struggles to penetrate an IS2 in my experience.

I don't think it's a worse tank destroyer, it just has different strengths. Its high rate of fire, low target size, good armor and huge veterancy bonuses (camo, 800hp, highest accuracy in the game, ridiculous rate of fire) make it incredibly good versus medium tanks and TDs which makes it well worth its current price.

Which, @Lago, is also the reason we've decided not to put it into the first half of the SPHQ for now as we figured it might be too effective at shutting down (early) Allied medium tanks, which will probably become more popular (and needed) now that heavies are going to be tied to tech. Especially with buffs to Sturmpioneer AT and the Raketen at the same time. But what goes into the upgrade and what doesn't is still subject to change and will depend on the feedback we get from actual test matches.

SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - Version 1.1 Changes

- Bug fixing to address collision and hitbox issues.

USF
Changes to both of the following units were discussed before release. The team has decided to include for testing after initial feedback.

Riflemen
We think Riflemen are solid infantry that scale very well, but we would like to put more emphasis on the engagement range dynamics between them and long range Axis squads. Their near range (and thereby their near DPS) will be slightly increased, which will naturally slightly increase their DPS up to range 16.
- M1 Garand near range from 3 to 6


(Chart amended from https://coh2db.com/stats/ )

Rear Echelon Troops
To make Rear Echelon Troops carbines perform more consistently, as currently they are very RNG dependent with their low accuracy but high rate of fire and damage, their accuracy has been increased. In return their damage per bullet will be reduced, to keep the same total DPS as now
- Damage from 10 to 8
- Accuracy from 0.403/0.288/0.23 to 0.51/0.3456/0.276

You know you could fix alot of the "big fuck off" flak gun issues if you just tied the damn thing to your base and made it ACTUALLY GOOD at killing aircraft.

Furthermore, if you don't like the tied to base idea panzer authorization should not need to be repurchased as dangerous cloth has suggested. If USF or UKF lose their tech structure they can repair the entire thing for free, makes no sense for OKW to have to pay 135F just to build tanks again.

Lastly, given obers now arrive from first phase Schwer HQ, which comes at 80F, you now need to factor in how long it takes into setting up the schwer HQ, then the build time for obers. By the time that's all said and done you've boosted ober arrival time by what? 2 minutes AT BEST? And they cannot upgrade till they fully have the panzer upgrade. I think you should look into decreasing ober build time to further boost their arrival.

SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - Version 1.1 Changes

- Bug fixing to address collision and hitbox issues.

USF
Changes to both of the following units were discussed before release. The team has decided to include for testing after initial feedback.

Riflemen
The following change is designed to to help rifles perform better in their intended role as aggressive close / mid-range infantry. This is a buff to rifles close-range combat, and will also improve their mid-range slightly out to 16m.
- Near range from 3 to 6

Rear Echelon Troops
To make Rear Echelon Troops carbines perform more consistently, as currently they are very RNG dependent with their low accuracy but high rate of fire and damage, their accuracy has been increased. In return their damage per bullet will be reduced, to keep the same total DPS as now
- Damage from 10 to 8
- Accuracy from 0.403/0.288/0.23 to 0.51/0.3456/0.276

Holy fucking shit a riflemen buff no fucking way

I take back everything I ever said, nerf the Pack Howie, the Scott, delete them from the game, I don't care anymore Riflemen buff Riflemen buff Riflemen buff

You know you could fix alot of the "big fuck off" flak gun issues if you just tied the damn thing to your base and made it ACTUALLY GOOD at killing aircraft.

Furthermore, if you don't like the tied to base idea panzer authorization should not need to be repurchased as dangerous cloth has suggested. If USF or UKF lose their tech structure they can repair the entire thing for free, makes no sense for OKW to have to pay 135F just to build tanks again.

Lastly, given obers now arrive from first phase Schwer HQ, which comes at 80F, you now need to factor in how long it takes into setting up the schwer HQ, then the build time for obers. By the time that's all said and done you've boosted ober arrival time by what? 2 minutes AT BEST? And they cannot upgrade till they fully have the panzer upgrade. I think you should look into decreasing ober build time to further boost their arrival.

Ostheer Gets tigers with BP3 no building at all

I think no need to repurchase panzer authoritarian is a good compromise between these other factions losing essential nothing if base buildings are destroyed, and the Entire OKW faction going down in flames if the building is lost mid game. (170 mp and 90 fuel to replace if authoritarian is permanent)

It is quite strong though and that could encourage more risky placement though. I have never much liked how it can be an all or nothing battle to kill the building when it can lock down half the map for a large amount of time if moderately defended.

Is it ideal to have games decided in a tech structure siege? What is the appropriate punishment for losing it and how much should it help you if you properly place it.

Another option, which I've made a thread for (https://www.coh2.org/topic/95452/okw-fourth-truck) is to physically split the SPHQ in two.

Have an unarmed tech structure, and a big flak truck you can build wherever.

Ostheer Gets tigers with BP3 no building at all

I think no need to repurchase panzer authoritarian is a good compromise between these other factions losing essential nothing if base buildings are destroyed, and the Entire OKW faction going down in flames if the building is lost mid game. (170 mp and 90 fuel to replace if authoritarian is permanent)

It is quite strong though and that could encourage more risky placement though. I have never much liked how it can be an all or nothing battle to kill the building when it can lock down half the map for a large amount of time if moderately defended.

Is it ideal to have games decided in a tech structure siege? What is the appropriate punishment for losing it and how much should it help you if you properly place it.

If it were up to me I'd lock it to base and make the truck free so the price matches USF and call it a day. OKW needs a free fuck off flak gun as much as USF needs free squads.

And no, it isn't ideal for an entire match be decided based on whether or not the OKW player can break the siege of the allies against their flak base. If you fail the game ends as you're overrun by cromwells/t34s/HE shermans. Succeed and you're guaranteed income for most of the match. It's pretty dumb.

As for appropriate punishment? With the current system I think 60/60F would be a good split and on top of that have a muni cost for the flak gun as a separate upgrade. I know miragefla made that upgrade when he made his mod, so it is very possible to do.

So now riflemen get buffs but grens don't LOL!

You can't take Spec Ops. The new patch is doing away with call-in heavies.

I think the half-SPHQ should have the JPIV in it. That way, losing the SPHQ still HURTS, but it's not such an unthinkably insane risk that no sensible player would countenance it.

Oh right.

Making first tier schwerer and then just spamming obers and JPIVs would be too attractive a choice in 1v1s then though, and it could probably even work in teamgames. You could shut down allied mediums basically before they even arrive and have that advantage for the rest of the game, while your obers and volks would be enough to handle their infantry.

I don't think it's a worse tank destroyer, it just has different strengths. Its high rate of fire, low target size, good armor and huge veterancy bonuses (camo, 800hp, highest accuracy in the game, ridiculous rate of fire) make it incredibly good versus medium tanks and TDs which makes it well worth its current price.

I never really think to get a JP4 to counter mediums to be honest, I'd rather invest in a P4 that can't be so easily swarmed/flanked. JP4 can do well vs other TD, but TD can do well against it also...so it's not exactly a counter like an Elephant is.

I'd gladly trade slower ROF for more penetration so it can at least have a similar impact late game as an SU-85/Jackson/Firefly do. Being forced into Panther or the meme that is the JT to reliably penetrate allied heavies is frustrating to say the least.

I never really think to get a JP4 to counter mediums to be honest, I'd rather invest in a P4 that can't so easily swarmed/flanked. JP4 can do well vs other TD, but TD can do well against it also...so it's not exactly a counter like an Elephant is.

I'd gladly trade slower ROF for more penetration so it can at least have a similar impact late game as an SU-85/Jackson/Firefly do. Being forced into Panther or the meme that is the JT to reliably penetrate allied heavies is frustrating to say the least.

+1

I never fully understood the roles of the JP4 vs the panther. They're both good vs mediums, but they're both mediocre vs heavies. Think the panther can engage a churchill reliably or the IS2? It has the pen sure, but it doesn't have the RoF to go through 1400 HP of the churchill. Can the JP4 challenge the churchill and IS2? Sure it has the RoF, but really subpar pen especially vs the IS2. And with the upcoming IS2 accuracy buffs, I really won't entirely know how to counter it effectivly since it won't be missing as much vs panthers.

Show Spoiler

I never really think to get a JP4 to counter mediums to be honest, I'd rather invest in a P4 that can't so easily swarmed/flanked. JP4 can do well vs other TD, but TD can do well against it also...so it's not exactly a counter like an Elephant is.

I'd gladly trade slower ROF for more penetration so it can at least have a similar impact late game as an SU-85/Jackson/Firefly do. Being forced into Panther or the meme that is the JT to reliably penetrate allied heavies is frustrating to say the least.

+1

I never fully understood the roles of the JP4 vs the panther. They're both good vs mediums, but they're both mediocre vs heavies. Think the panther can engage a churchill reliably or the IS2? It has the pen sure, but it doesn't have the RoF to go through 1400 HP of the churchill. Can the JP4 challenge the churchill and IS2? Sure it has the RoF, but really subpar pen especially vs the IS2. And with the upcoming IS2 accuracy buffs, I really won't entirely know how to counter it effectivly since it won't be missing as much vs panthers.

Show Spoiler

If I had my way I would just nerf heavy tank armor across the board since they're all nigh impossible to kill without focus firing them down anyway, and having half your shots barely scratch the paint job doesn't help. Can lower the price on them slightly or some BS but dear God they really make the armor stage of the game unfun, literally have to plan every match under the assumption that some unstoppable death machine wankfest is going to pop up out of nowhere and own the field until enough dedicated AT units can be mustered to kill it, at which point you hope the guy doesn't have enough fuel to buy another one. Increased target size wouldn't hurt too much either.

SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - Version 1.1 Changes

- Bug fixing to address collision and hitbox issues.

USF
Changes to both of the following units were discussed before release. The team has decided to include for testing after initial feedback.

Riflemen
We think Riflemen are solid infantry that scale very well, but we would like to put more emphasis on the engagement range dynamics between them and long range Axis squads. Their near range (and thereby their near DPS) will be slightly increased, which will naturally slightly increase their DPS up to range 16.
- M1 Garand near range from 3 to 6


(Chart amended from https://coh2db.com/stats/ )

Rear Echelon Troops
To make Rear Echelon Troops carbines perform more consistently, as currently they are very RNG dependent with their low accuracy but high rate of fire and damage, their accuracy has been increased. In return their damage per bullet will be reduced, to keep the same total DPS as now
- Damage from 10 to 8
- Accuracy from 0.403/0.288/0.23 to 0.51/0.3456/0.276

???? buffs for riflemen?? what???? emphasis on what??? they already beat axis mainline inf in mid and close range. I'm sorry but some of the reasoning for these buffs are bs.

well Devm asked for those buff, u can see aecoh podcast

???? buffs for riflemen?? what???? emphasis on what??? they already beat axis mainline inf in mid and close range. I'm sorry but some of the reasoning for these buffs are bs.

And now they'll beat them a little bit more consistently. Glad we're on the same boat.

And God in heaven does it not sweeten the sting of having the late-game non-doc indirect fire nerfed from existence.