Why USF so bad in tournaments?

The problem is Riflemen facing Volks + Sturms while RE are horrible in the first minutes. If it was only Riflemen vs Volks then USF would have an easy time.

Even that is not really the biggest problem I think, because you know the Sturmpioneers will be coming so you can team up your RET and RM or wait for your second RM before pushing. The bigger problem is that the second and third (and fourth) Volks come out a lot faster than the second (and third) Riflemen (or officer) and it's easy to get overrun because stock Riflemen are not guaranteed to trade well (even though they can). The OKW bumrush will hopefully be addressed with some faction overhaul changes in the upcoming balance patch, by toning down their early game power and spreading it out a bit more across the mid game.

I have to pay to unlock my bars and grenades, you get them with tech. That's a full squad of MP and 30 fuel I need in order to get stuff that comes with your regular tech costs

Again Rifleman are good. Not as cost effective as Volks, which are OP. You think volks are OP too don't you? Do you think rifleman are also OP? If you don't then i don't see how you can disagree with the statement that volks are more cost effective

first "i" "u" "ur" im not the okw faction and u are not the usf faction, at least i don't sexually identify as okw

second okw start with a fuel deficit of - 15 and trucks cost 15 fu, okw pay for upgrades in both tech and less starting fuel (full okw tech is more expensive than full usf tech)

i don't think volks are op, i think they are just badly designed and I hate stgs, 2 stg are still worse than a bar tho, swap stg for mp 40 upgrade and buff their vet accordingly

what i would nerf is simply the starting mp that allows for easy volks spam

first "i" "u" "ur" im not the okw faction and u are not the usf faction, at least i don't sexually identify as okw

Was a figure of speech given the sides we were taking in the discussion. Idk how you can say you don't think volks are OP but you want to remove the StG. Thats what made them such a problem

Maybe not against US but stgs are the main reason conscripts are so unusable. But we have enough threads about that

Was a figure of speech given the sides we were taking in the discussion. Idk how you can say you don't think volks are OP but you want to remove the StG. Thats what made them such a problem

Maybe not against US but stgs are the main reason conscripts are so unusable. But we have enough threads about that

exactly, they completely shut down cons cause they have a weird dps curse (the bar has the same problem but not as accentuated as there is no close range main line inf for axis that loses to bar)

mp40 would give a choice to cons if they have or don't have upgrade (close in if no mp 40, stay at range with mp 40) same for toher main lines

Yes that could work in terms of function, it would be best for build diversity. It would be a significant nerf to the faction by adding an extra build time on the LT/Captain and making USF pay an extra 100 mp for their officer + new tech costs. This would not help them in tournaments ^^. There is probably some way to make up for said change though.

It could be the same pricewise. Just split somehow.

Do rifles have lower dps modifier on themove than other units?

no they have better
0,6 acc on the move and 1.25 cd (instated of 0.5 and 1.5)

exactly, they completely shut down cons cause they have a weird dps curse (the bar has the same problem but not as accentuated as there is no close range main line inf for axis that loses to bar)

mp40 would give a choice to cons if they have or don't have upgrade (close in if no mp 40, stay at range with mp 40) same for toher main lines

While you are at it you might as well swap the fire nades for stick nades and put the fire nades into fuersturm.
This immediately fixes the problem where Volks run trough mg (looking at you Vickers) fire and throw a nade and run away. It will make allied MG play more viable.

And of course having a fire nade in Fuersturm doctrine makes thematic sense.

So I say:

STG to Fuersturm
MP40 to Volks

Incendiary grenade to Fuersturm
Stick grenade to Volks

While you are at it you might as well swap the fire nades for stick nades and put the fire nades into fuersturm.
This immediately fixes the problem where Volks run trough mg (looking at you Vickers) fire and throw a nade and run away. It will make allied MG play more viable.

And of course having a fire nade in Fuersturm doctrine makes thematic sense.

So I say:

STG to Fuersturm
MP40 to Volks

Incendiary grenade to Fuersturm
Stick grenade to Volks

Thats exactly how it used to be. Volks were much stronger and OKW was useless on urban maps. The current system makes OKW infantry less overwhelming and lets OKW not totally lose the game if someone jumps in a house before they can. Not a reversion I would recommend

While you are at it you might as well swap the fire nades for stick nades and put the fire nades into fuersturm.
This immediately fixes the problem where Volks run trough mg (looking at you Vickers) fire and throw a nade and run away. It will make allied MG play more viable.

And of course having a fire nade in Fuersturm doctrine makes thematic sense.

So I say:

STG to Fuersturm
MP40 to Volks

Incendiary grenade to Fuersturm
Stick grenade to Volks

there is only one problem with no flame nades , u get 0 anti garrison (ost ans su have flame thorwer, usf has tier 0 mortar ukf has WASP)

Even that is not really the biggest problem I think, because you know the Sturmpioneers will be coming so you can team up your RET and RM or wait for your second RM before pushing. The bigger problem is that the second and third (and fourth) Volks come out a lot faster than the second (and third) Riflemen (or officer) and it's easy to get overrun because stock Riflemen are not guaranteed to trade well (even though they can). The OKW bumrush will hopefully be addressed with some faction overhaul changes in the upcoming balance patch, by toning down their early game power and spreading it out a bit more across the mid game.

USF is still in an awkward 1 min when they are teching towards an officer and say OKW is playing with 4 Volks + SP compared to USF with RE + 3 Rifles.

It doesn't help that officers are kinda bland utility wise.

Even that is not really the biggest problem I think, because you know the Sturmpioneers will be coming so you can team up your RET and RM or wait for your second RM before pushing. The bigger problem is that the second and third (and fourth) Volks come out a lot faster than the second (and third) Riflemen (or officer) and it's easy to get overrun because stock Riflemen are not guaranteed to trade well (even though they can). The OKW bumrush will hopefully be addressed with some faction overhaul changes in the upcoming balance patch, by toning down their early game power and spreading it out a bit more across the mid game.

That and the fact that volks get 10% tougher at vet1 while riflemen get at nades lol. You really have to play significantly better with rifles in the early game if you want to trade properly (since riflemen are more expensive to reinforce than volks too). I like going airborne or recon support to help even out that early infantry rush since paths hit the field faster than a second rifle squad can though.

Also the fact that officers take like a minute and a half to tech to or something.

USF lacks any effective combat units at the start of the game. They have NONE what so ever when the game starts. In contrast every single one of OKW's starting units will trounce what ever you can field. You pretty much have to pray for good RNG at the start of the game. I mean look at what USF starts with:

Riflemen - easily countered by Volks and Strums

Rear Echeleons - LOL, definitely NOT worth 200 MP, arguably the most overpriced unit in the game besides maybe Riflemen themselves. Volley Fire even with the buff is still mostly useless.

Mortar - Can be useful against OST but doesn't really do anything against OKW. They'll just run their T0 shock engineer unit up to it and kill it and you can't really protect it with anything because as I said you have terrible starting infantry

Ambulance - Pointless as a T0 unit you'd be an idiot to buy one before the 10 minute mark.

Ostheer is a little easier to fight unless they go with the Assault Gren doctrine then they'll just sweep you out.

You really only stand a chance if the enemy gives you some breathing room and plays defensive at the beginning but you have nothing with which to force your enemy on the densive since your all your starting units are inferior to what either opponent can field.

That and the fact that volks get 10% tougher at vet1 while riflemen get at nades lol. You really have to play significantly better with rifles in the early game if you want to trade properly (since riflemen are more expensive to reinforce than volks too). I like going airborne or recon support to help even out that early infantry rush since paths hit the field faster than a second rifle squad can though.

Also the fact that officers take like a minute and a half to tech to or something.

Yes this. I know Riflemen are in theory supposed to be better than Volks but that's only true if you're lucky enough to survive to Vet3 and can afford the weapon rack and double BARs because anything short of that and they are easily the worst mainline in the game.

Typically if you face Volks you're facing probably the best mainline infantry in the game. They easily match and defeat Rifles early on and you aren't paying side techs or worrying about vetting up to get fausts, flame nades, and STGs. Plus they are cheaper to buy, reinforce and they vet much faster than Riflemen plus they have 5 levels of veterancy. This is overall the most OP unit in the game...and people want to nerf Tommies LOL.

[Volks] easily match and defeat Rifles early on

They do not. Volks and Rifles have comparable long range DPS, but Rifles have better mid and short range.


For what it's worth, Rifles also have 0.97 target size at vet 0, while Volks have 1.0.
If your Rifles consistantly lose to Volks, you are doing something wrong.

and you aren't paying side techs or worrying about vetting up to get fausts, flame nades, and STGs.

They don't have side techs, but their tech is more expensive than the USF's (because they get only 5 starting fuel) and their upgrades aren't as powerful. It's fair.

and they vet much faster than Riflemen plus they have 5 levels of veterancy.

Volks veterancy requirements are 480/960/1920/2400/3192.
Rifles veterancy requirements are 560/1120/2576.

They do not vet up that much faster, and their veterancy bonusses are generally worse. Again, this is fair.

This is overall the most OP unit in the game

They aren't. Take your bias glasses off.

How much usf jeep costs and how much tech required fot it? I was surprised that snare only takes like 50% of its hp compared to m3's 90%.

What also are pgrens and shocks on the move modifiers?

How much usf jeep costs and how much tech required fot it? I was surprised that snare only takes like 50% of its hp compared to m3's 90%.

WC-51 has 240 hitpoints. The M3 has 200 hitpoints.
A snare deals 100 damage. It deals 50% damage to the M3, not 90%.

Yes this. I know Riflemen are in theory supposed to be better than Volks but that's only true if you're lucky enough to survive to Vet3 and can afford the weapon rack and double BARs because anything short of that and they are easily the worst mainline in the game.

Typically if you face Volks you're facing probably the best mainline infantry in the game. They easily match and defeat Rifles early on and you aren't paying side techs or worrying about vetting up to get fausts, flame nades, and STGs. Plus they are cheaper to buy, reinforce and they vet much faster than Riflemen plus they have 5 levels of veterancy. This is overall the most OP unit in the game...and people want to nerf Tommies LOL.

sure dude .... wtf

Yes OKW has strong start. thats part of the faction design since release. Strong start... worst mid game.... strong lategame.

Yes they may beat rifles early but rifles shred them at any distance with bars or the 1919... u have nates wich can easy fuk untis... when clustered up.
When the all mighty volks have their stgs u have the first tech and their facing armored stuff.
In the late game they loose against all other mainlines execpt for cons. But no one play only cons... much more facing guards or penals.

Rifles are MUCH more versatile than any other mainline inf. There are so much docs that give them extra equip and u can choose even stock for bar or zook...and normal nades.

so sorry for u but its clearly L2P

It’s nice to see a lot of adequate comments about the problem of usf. The last tournament helped to make sure of this even more.

USF has a huge problem late game with MP drain. When Panzerwerfer or Stuka comes into play the 280MP rifle are shut down. You can build cheap RE as replacements for weapon pick ups and cap points but they are so lame late game than why even bother. USF generally more micro intensive and almost all of their units require constant baby sitting.