Ostheer and Soviet FRP discussion

The point of this thread is to discuss how to implement non doctrinal forward retreat points for these two factions in a balanced way.
Here are my proposals:

-Ostheer: after reaching battle phase 3 and building T3 or T4, Command Bunkers (the one that can reinforce, 150 manpower, 60 munitions) can act as a forward retreat point (only one at a time).

-Soviet: Airborne Rally Point becomes non-doctrinal, renamed to Field Rally Point. Instead of airdropped medical supplies a 250 manpower or 60 munitions upgrade would add field medics to the Field Rally Point.

• In the Airborne doctrine the Rally point would be replaced by Zis or 45 mm AT gun paradrop.

• In Urban defense doctrine the forward headquarters would be replaced by a repair station OR defensive fortifications (similar to ostheer defense doctrine, allows construction of tank traps, trenches and the soviet mg bunkers)
  

Why?

Because on larger maps the lack of FRPs for these two factions creates a major gap in infantry play. Think of General Mud or Steppes, takes ages to retreat and to get back your troops to the frontline.

Umm, stop blobbing and mass retreating your 5+ squads thanks to walking into single HMG range/having half your force obliterated by single mortar shell?

It's not about my gameplay stlye, it's more about that the WFA armies with FRP can simply press retreat and bring back their infantry forces in less than a minute. By retreating they also benefit from the retreat defence bonuses, and don't forget the speed boost which may save them from incoming artillery fire. As ostheer or soviets your best bet at keeping your infantry alive is using a 251 or M5 halftrack, however they are very vulnerable to AT fire and healing your troops at the same time is out of question.
Point is, if you make a mistake with FRP, big deal, you just retreat and try again. As ostheer or soviet it takes more micro to stay on the front and you pay more for mistakes.

Just add to halftrack upgrade that turned it into immobile FRP.

This is why both EFA armies have non doctrinal halftracks which can reinforce in the front.

This is why both EFA armies have non doctrinal halftracks which can reinforce in the front.

But they too fragile, you can't retreat to them and healing. In lategame it's impossible to don't retreat when you hear sound of rocket arty. Every diving armor killed you HT easily.
If HT so good, why don't replace FRP of WFA to halftrucks too? Equality to all peoples)

But they too fragile

And USF ambulance and major are not? Gren squad can annihilate both in seconds.

you can't retreat to them and healing.

Nor should you, FRPs encourage noob behaviors, like blobbing and mass retreating when any serious threat approaches without being punished for that with map control loss.

In lategame it's impossible to don't retreat when you hear sound of rocket arty. Every diving armor killed you HT easily.

That's why you build mines.

If HT so good, why don't replace FRP of WFA to halftrucks too? Equality to all peoples)

Because rifles and volks are much stronger infantries that would roll over you easily if stock option was there?

If Ostheer and Soviets would get FRPs, then removing reinforcing on 251 (250 vet 1) and M5 halftracks can be considered as well.

Or - now listen to me - don't try to fix what isn't broken and don't dumb down any more factions.

If half track reinforcing and FRPs were on the same level then threads requesting for FRPs wouldn't appear. Interestingly I don't see many threads that would request for half track reinforcements for WFA armies, just a slight hint that in most situations it is inferior, especially on the 4v4 late game chaos.

whether you retreat ur blob or a single squad, with a FRP you can get ur units back into the field faster, regardless dont know what katifof is crying about. Both Ostheer and soviets deserve FRP, its not going to break balance so i don't see the problem.

In team games on large maps, factions with FRP have a massive advantage, and in 1v1's it wont really make any difference so i don't see why they don't implement these changes for ostheer and soviets

Just add to halftrack upgrade that turned it into immobile FRP.

No that Commander is already strong enough. You get call-in infantry, a better P4, AND a tiger Ace. If they put forward retreat back on that Commander like the bug did, that Commander will be way too strong

If it's getting added it should be on a different Commander

I dont think its a good idea, sorry OP.

If you really want, we can discuss to buff the halftracks that can reinforce durability, sadly both have 'good' weapon upgrades.

It’s just the USF Ambulance + major combo and UKF Foreward assembly + pay once AOE heal medkits is batshit OP compared to Wher’s half track + 15 munitions non AOE pay every time heals or Soviets half track + nothing

Oh wait! They can get the commissar! That makes it OK

I don't see SOV and OST forward retreat points as a problem provided they have the same risk, expense and inflexibility of other forward retreat points. And before anyone mentions USF, remember their FRP is the Major and the Ambulance together.

A 200 MP upgrade for the 251 and M5 halftrack that turns it into a permanently immobile forward retreat point (similar to how an OKW sWs sets up) could work.

But they too fragile, you can't retreat to them and healing. In lategame it's impossible to don't retreat when you hear sound of rocket arty. Every diving armor killed you HT easily.
If HT so good, why don't replace FRP of WFA to halftrucks too? Equality to all peoples)

Because, like it or not, this is one of the strength/weakness of each army. They lack FRP but then they get access to other tools to compensate.

TBH, you shouldn't think of making FRP more accessible, rather than go in the opposite way. Making FRP usage less non brainer and punishable.

Let's start stating some facts again as quite a few people are missing the point and to make the current differences clear to everyone before potential bullshitting.

OST: no retreat point, halftrack reinforcement, bunker reinforcement and healing, one-time single squad healing for muni each time the ability is used
SOV: doctrinal FRP on one single commander, halftrack reinforcement, NO healing outside of the base sector
OKW: FRP and healing upgradable when teched (both together quite expensive and rarely seen in smaller modes), med crates healing. Volks self heal in late game at vet5
USF: mobile FRP, reinforcement and healing. Most expensive healing unit in game and there are no other options. Comes at the price of constant use of population and opportunity cost for not using abilities of the major
USF: FRP, healing and reinforcements in FOBs. VERY expensive to build both, I would assume that even larger modes rarely allow Brits to get both down. Upgradable AoE healing on IS as pay-once upgrade


You should see that Relic tried different strategies with this mechanic and the three new factions have different benefits and cost. I do think that OST and SOV would benefit on larger maps, although I am not a big fan of real retreat points. Soft retreating from fights should be encouraged by forward heal and reinforcement points, a real retreat should be punished by longer walking times. Real FRPs should be expensive as with UK and OKW, USF could use a very slight nerf here, maybe in the form of 1 pop and a bit more MP on the major.