British balance - Tommy too strong

There's definitely things wrong with Tommies, but those are central to their design goal of being broken strong to sell copies of the British forces. Things like "1 time upgrade for cheap as fuck to heal you and amy/every squad in an AOE anywhere on the map while on the move, for cheaper than Ost bunker medics or okw 3 use static med crates" to "1 time upgrade that adds an extra man, kinda like conscripts does but this doesn't take up weapons slots which is a good thing because that weapon rack over there has 2 lmgs with their name on it"

There's nothing wrong with strong early game rifle infantry (they can't chase to save their lives) but their ability to crank up the pressure mid-late game by out gunning and out lasting is simply madness.

If some of their upgrades took up weapon slots I think they would be much more balanced. Extra man will cost you a Bren slot so choose wisely. That medic kit will cost you a Bren and the ability to get 5 men bud, chose carefully! Vs "I want it all and I want it now...."

There's definitely things wrong with Tommies, but those are central to their design goal of being broken strong to sell copies of the British forces. Things like "1 time upgrade for cheap as fuck to heal you and amy/every squad in an AOE anywhere on the map while on the move, for cheaper than Ost bunker medics or okw 3 use static med crates" to "1 time upgrade that adds an extra man, kinda like conscripts does but this doesn't take up weapons slots which is a good thing because that weapon rack over there has 2 lmgs with their name on it"

There's nothing wrong with strong early game rifle infantry (they can't chase to save their lives) but their ability to crank up the pressure mid-late game by out gunning and out lasting is simply madness.

If some of their upgrades took up weapon slots I think they would be much more balanced. Extra man will cost you a Bren slot so choose wisely. That medic kit will cost you a Bren and the ability to get 5 men bud, chose carefully! Vs "I want it all and I want it now...."

I like this idea, but it would require changing how the bolster mechanic currently works if the bolstering were to take up a weapon slot. Certainly the healing or pyrotechnics could, however.

Not sure how bolster reducing the weapon slots makes any sense when the current meta (that is deemed OP) is 5 men sections without brens.

There are several good options on the table to nerf Sections without touching the delicate general balance too much. I personally would prefer cost increase(s) and then see how they work.

Options:

• Section mp cost to 290
  
• Increase reinforcement cost
  
• Options for the 5-men upgrade:
  - Increase cost for 5-men upgrade
  - Delay the upgrade to a later stage of the game
  - Bolster upgrade takes up 1 weapon slot
  
  

There are several good options on the table to nerf Sections without touching the delicate general balance too much. I personally would prefer cost increase(s) and then see how they work.

Options:

• Section mp cost to 290
  
• Increase reinforcement cost
  
• Options for the 5-men upgrade:
  - Increase cost for 5-men upgrade
  - Delay the upgrade to a later stage of the game
  - Bolster upgrade takes up 1 weapon slot
  
  

Half of the options ruins early game completely, while other half cripple late game.

Hardly viable options if you ask me.

Gotta add my dime to the disscusion.

Main point is that tommies are rather self-sustained unit, as volks. They both have ascess to sandbags, both have self-heal (but tommies can also heal squads around), and both can be upgraded.
You can't really change one without changing another to keep things around balanced.

Let's look at typical early engadgement - sturmpios vs tommies. If tommies are behind at least yellow cover, they do still manage to drop at least one of enemy's model on the approach most of the time, thus making engagements almost even.

I would rather tinker with their damage output or with sandbags(link it with "sim-city" commander?) and not with healing aura/bolster. Remember, they still need to have them as mainline infantry, meant to compete with volks.
OR
We can look at brens and do something with them. Making them 2-slot upgrade is too cruel, IMO, but maybe we can make it little bit more consistent with and witout cover somehow?

What we definetly do not need is basic or reinforcement cost increase - UKF already struggles with it most of the time.

Typical first contact between UKF and OKW often happen as follow, Tommy in cover can drop about 1 model of stum but after that, a atum squad with 3 model close in at point blank will still win the engagement most of the time, and event if stum retreat, the Tommy now at 2 model low heath will be come easy target for the following volk, wich always come faster than the second Tommy or vicker.

For mid late game infantry engagement, without commandos from doc, tommy will definitely need their upgrade to be able to stand again pgen and ober.

I can agree to this idea, HOWEVER i think the faction in general needs to be looked at. Thwy are currently overperforming in opinion.

UKF are the weakest faction imo. However, IS are the best mainline infantry WHEN they have bolster and brens.

If IS are nerfed then we need to look at the UKF faction as a whole as much of it is being carried by 3-4 decent units while the rest (including emplacements)are just useless.

buff the vicker, reduced base accuracy of IS but add it either to the cover bonus or to vet

Half of the options ruins early game completely, while other half cripple late game.

Hardly viable options if you ask me.

Well what do you deem viable?

They have to be nerfed in some form, because they are batshit op right now. Other things need to be buffed or else brits are useless. But still, what would YOU change on tommies then?!

Well what do you deem viable?

They have to be nerfed in some form, because they are batshit op right now. Other things need to be buffed or else brits are useless. But still, what would YOU change on tommies then?!

Me? Well I would leave them the way they are except get rid of bolster infantry and have all UKF units just start with 5 men from the get go.

Me? Well I would leave them the way they are except get rid of bolster infantry and have all UKF units just start with 5 men from the get go.

Wait you want to buff tommies?!? Or is there some other nerf associated with this suggestion?

Cause holy hell they do not need a buff

Wait you want to buff tommies?!? Or is there some other nerf associated with this suggestion?

Cause holy hell they do not need a buff

Take a look at who you replied to before you let your surprise at an unneeded allied buff take hold

Wait you want to buff tommies?!? Or is there some other nerf associated with this suggestion?

Cause holy hell they do not need a buff

No, he wants them to be 5 model with the 4 men stats.

Me? Well I would leave them the way they are except get rid of bolster infantry and have all UKF units just start with 5 men from the get go.

No I meant the lord of barking and not biting, mr Katitof.

No, he wants them to be 5 model with the 4 men stats.

I was originally thinking of suggesting that each squad have to upgrade to 5 men just like Ost Infantry doctrine, but this is a much better solution, it helps some in the early game because of less dps dropoff and ease of capturing weapons and it prevents the absurd snowballing of Tommies in the mid/late game.

I was originally thinking of suggesting that each squad have to upgrade to 5 men just like Ost Infantry doctrine, but this is a much better solution, it helps some in the early game because of less dps dropoff and ease of capturing weapons and it prevents the absurd snowballing of Tommies in the mid/late game.

No actually it was sarcasm. The truth though? There is absolutely nothing wrong with Infantry Sections. If anything they should revert the stupid Bren nerf from last year.

Why should Tommies be not be nerfed and perhaps rebuffed?

It is the only good combat infantry unit you get unless you go with a few doctrines that give you commandos. USF and UKF don't get mid and late game elite infantry units handed to them like Obersoldaten or Panzergrenadiers. The Bren was nerfed so bad it's almost pointless to upgrade to them now so they actually preform pretty poorly against Vet 3 and above Volksgrens and even MG42 Grens at vet 2 and 3. But yeah lets just nerf Brits more so we can make Axis even more easy mode than they already are.