British balance - Tommy too strong

With CODGUY logic we should buff panthers, because they are the only good combat tank you get as axis, unless you go a few doctrines that give you Elephant or Jagtiger...

And i wasnt being serious

With CODGUY logic we should buff panthers, because they are the only good combat tank you get as axis, unless you go a few doctrines that give you Elephant or Jagtiger...

And i wasnt being serious

But he is right in some sense.
- Tommies are both starting unit and mainline unit. And pretty much only one infantry unit in whole army composition exept royals. Almost every other faction have at least 3 options (CE, cons, penals/pios, grens, pgrens/sturmpios, volks or pzfuzils, obers.
- UKF have no premium infantry avaliable without regiments unlike OKW with their Obers, or soviets with their penals.
- only other starting option is vikkers, which is pretty crappy, or UC that is useless without upgrades.

Thus, Tommies gotta be good, or they will be roflstopmed bu volks.

No actually it was sarcasm. The truth though? There is absolutely nothing wrong with Infantry Sections. If anything they should revert the stupid Bren nerf from last year.

Why should Tommies be not be nerfed and perhaps rebuffed?

It is the only good combat infantry unit you get unless you go with a few doctrines that give you commandos. USF and UKF don't get mid and late game elite infantry units handed to them like Obersoldaten or Panzergrenadiers. The Bren was nerfed so bad it's almost pointless to upgrade to them now so they actually preform pretty poorly against Vet 3 and above Volksgrens and even MG42 Grens at vet 2 and 3. But yeah lets just nerf Brits more so we can make Axis even more easy mode than they already are.

Nobody gets elite infantry "handed to them" everybody has to pay for them at a high manpower price and at the cost of little to no AT capability. A standard infantry squad isn't supposed to be able to easily deal with elite infantry just by slapping a Bren gun on them. Before the Bren nerf, five man double Bren Tommies were melting everything on foot and under no circumstances should they be rebuffed. Even now 5 man Tommies with Brens are very effective against Grens, even with MG42s.


I don't know why Relic decided that the British were going to have to be totally reliant on one infantry squad and have no other non doc combat infantry squad just like the USF with Rifleman, it was an afwul decision and it makes balancing very difficult.

Honestly I think the best solution would be to give the UKF some kind of non doctrinal elite infantry, but that's almost certainly not going to happen so we have to figure out someway to balance Tommies. I understand how it can be difficult to deal with elite infantry in the lategame, but the solution is not to buff Tommies to the point where they roll right over standard infantry and contest mid vetted elite infantry.

With CODGUY logic we should buff panthers, because they are the only good combat tank you get as axis, unless you go a few doctrines that give you Elephant or Jagtiger...

And i wasnt being serious

Except as OST you have Panzer IVs, Stugs, and Brumbars.

Can you name an infantry unit UKF has besides Tommies? Royal Engineers? LOL no.

With CODGUY logic we should buff panthers, because they are the only good combat tank you get as axis, unless you go a few doctrines that give you Elephant or Jagtiger...

And i wasnt being serious

That would be true, if ost T3 and brummbar didn't existed.
But hey, you tried.
What's UKF alternative to tommies again? How often do you play with it and how are the results?

Except as OST you have Panzer IVs, Stugs, and Brumbars.

Can you name an infantry unit UKF has besides Tommies? Royal Engineers? LOL no.

Having no other combat infantry isnt an excuse to have an OP unit. If Tommies had power armour and had bolters would you still say "well its not like UKF has any other combat infantry therefore British space marines are balanced hurrr durrr."

Having no other combat infantry isnt an excuse to have an OP unit. If Tommies had power armour and had bolters would you still say "well its not like UKF has any other combat infantry therefore British space marines are balanced hurrr durrr."

I like your analogy, because that was the reason why tacticals were ever so powerful in DoW2 compared to everyone else, being ranged infantry that could also outmelee some melee squads.

Honestly, I feel like Vanilla Tommies are alright balance wise but the Bolster upgrade makes them far too durable and allows them to scale better than Axis main-line infantry even with weapon upgrades. If they required the Tier 3 to be teched before being able to purchase the bolster upgrade I feel like that would make 5-man section spam a bit weaker. Players should have to purchase weapon racks to deal with Axis infantry upgrades, not purchasing one upgrade and being able to scale into the late-game automatically.

What's UKF alternative to tommies again? How often do you play with it and how are the results?

Then you agree with volks having to be OP by necessity, since there are no other early alternatives.

SU have penals.
OST have pgren
USF have let and cpt.

I dont really like volks nor IS being OP

Then you agree with volks having to be OP by necessity, since there are no other early alternatives.

SU have penals.
OST have pgren
USF have let and cpt.

I dont really like volks nor IS being OP

It depends if we take into account doctrinal alternatives or not.
Because new pfussies exist specifically to give alternative to volks, starting worse, but scaling much better and being capable of AT on top.
There are also JLI.

Tommies have no alternatives what so ever, doctrinal or not.

If they required the Tier 3 to be teched before being able to purchase the bolster upgrade I feel like that would make 5-man section spam a bit weaker.

This seems pretty reasonable. Was also thinking they could make it an upgrade you have to buy for each squad, even after you buy the bolster tech (make it cheaper and lock behind t3). Maybe make it take up a weapon slot too

Then you agree with volks having to be OP by necessity, since there are no other early alternatives.

SU have penals.
OST have pgren
USF have let and cpt.

I dont really like volks nor IS being OP

Wrong again. You have an elite engineer sqaud and Obersoldaten besides Volks and then there are doctrinal stuff like T0 PFs and T1 JLI.

UKF has none of that and even doctrinally they only really have Commandos arriving at CP3 which is almost not even viable with the Vanguard Regiment becuase of the rediculos MP cost of calling in the glider.

So if you weaken Tommies even more you just screw over the whole faction. But maybe thats what the Wehraboo OKW and OST fanbois want so those factions can be EZ mode even more.

UKF has none of that and even doctrinally they only really have Commandos arriving at CP3 which is almost not even viable with the Vanguard Regiment becuase of the rediculos MP cost of calling in the glider.

Commandos are viable in every form they come in. The vangaurd glider gives you the officer AND can act as a forward retreat, its worth the cost

They are a completely different role from tommies, so they are not an alternative, but in that role they are plenty strong/viable

Commandos are viable in every form they come in. The vangaurd glider gives you the officer AND can act as a forward retreat, its worth the cost

They are a completely different role from tommies, so they are not an alternative, but in that role they are plenty strong/viable

It gives you a lot but I usually don't need the glider because I'd rather have a forward OP since they allow for the weapon racks in addition to pop free healing. Basically I just need the commandos but I have to get all that crap first before I can get a commando sqaud. I don't like the Air Landing officer because its only a 4 man sqaud so I'd rather get commandos but I can't without first getting the ALO. Plus the glider takes damage and can't be repaired after it crash lands and after it dramatically and loudly announces its presence to your opponent. And once it's destroyed that's it no more commandos without calling in another one. Honestly I hate how that mechanic works with Vanguard Regiment.

It gives you a lot but I usually don't need the glider because I'd rather have a forward OP since they allow for the weapon racks in addition to pop free healing. Basically I just need the commandos but I have to get all that crap first before I can get a commando sqaud. I don't like the Air Landing officer because its only a 4 man sqaud so I'd rather get commandos but I can't without first getting the ALO. Plus the glider takes damage and can't be repaired after it crash lands and after it dramatically and loudly announces its presence to your opponent. And once it's destroyed that's it no more commandos without calling in another one. Honestly I hate how that mechanic works with Vanguard Regiment.

Then why are you picking Vanguard? You've got three different options to get Commandos: why pick the one you don't like?

Then why are you picking Vanguard? You've got three different options to get Commandos: why pick the one you don't like?

Because Vanguard has the Crocodile and Typhoons. It would be way better with call in commandos instead of the dumb glider.

I wish the vanguard glider came with commandos instead of ALO and could be repaired honestly. Repair should be a no-brainer and I'd much rather have commandos as soon as possible instead of a gimped 4 man squad without camo (even though he's got awesome abilities) and be able to produce the ALO if I want later in addition to commandos. I just think the timing would be more useful that way. Also kind of wish the ALO just got camo too (maybe just without ambush bonuses).

Also, super unimportant but I kinda also wish that the gliders weren't something you can't walk/drive through since they're so big. Annoying having infantry and vehicles have to navigate their way around them IMO.

Wrong again. You have an elite engineer sqaud and Obersoldaten besides Volks and then there are doctrinal stuff like T0 PFs and T1 JLI.

Elite engineer are still engineer, after the 3 min mark they become unreliable against former combat units. A sturmpio will only bully other engineer troops, rarely seen on the frontlines. So their worth is halved if you dont want to bleed manpower like a stuffed pig.

Obersoldaten at min 0? Wow thats new. Tell me more please.

I didnt know that UKF only had IS, no light vehicles nor team weapons. I guess you were right that nerfing IS means nerf the whole faction and that is the strongest argument why it should happen, to see other units buffed and be used again.

the tommies are good because they must be, the UKF's manpower problems make it so you must be able to fight with a force smaller than your enemy (hence their power). This makes them sorta like a penal squad that cant chase units down. The tommies lack of snares make them bait for flametracks and cant do much without a bren carrier vs MG42's the OKW can counter the UKF playstlye as soon as a flame grenade becomes available. While strong, the tommies can be beaten like everything else.

the UKF's manpower problems make it so you must be able to fight with a force smaller than your enemy (hence their power)

What manpower problems? UKF starts off with 340+280=620 manpower which is the second highest (shared with Ostheer but UKF doesn't need to build any tech, 20 less than OKW). Infantry Sections are 28 MP to reinforce which is not that expensive and cheaper than Grens (30 MP) while also being the most durable line infantry (0.8 target size), they get a good manpower bleed vehicle (Universal Carrier) and an HMG from the start, their tech is notoriously cheap (especially since AEC, grenades and weapon racks are currently entirely optional), with Bolster tech they get a recruitment bonus (5 men Sappers or IS for their 4 men price) and then there's the fact that Infantry Sections trade very well versus any Axis infantry that isn't Obersoldaten.