Why does this ability cost 125 munitions? The Ostheer AI strafe equivalent costs 60 munitions. From my tests it does a slight amount of damage (half health of a squad or 1/4 health of a medium tank), unlike the Ostheer strafe, but I haven't found other qualities that make the price seem worth it yet.
Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't something like 80 munitions be more fair?
USF tactical support strafing run
26 Jul 2019, 09:43 AM
#1
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
26 Jul 2019, 09:51 AM
#2
Posts: 186
It is great against single HMGs in green coverwhich are near the borders of the map, it can easily wipe them if it attacks slightly from behind the green cover position but that is about all the usefullness of the strafe but with the reconaissance run from that doctrine (the only one which is still at 80 munitions compared to 60 for sov, ost) and the now useful m5 ht (which comes later then the ukf callin variant 3 vs 2 cp) you rarely float munitions anyway so it is possible to ignore the strafe unless you can easily get some free HMGs.
I think 80 munitions could be too cheap but a rework with less damage and more supression (similar to the ost variant) for a lower price could fit nicely.
Even if the green cover is working teamweapons or infantry get reduced to ~ 75% of their hp.
Infantry in yellow cover gets annihilated as well, but infantry can retreat fast and HMGs usually are either in green cover to gain less incoming damage/supression or no cover to avoid grenade/indirect wipes due to the better spread.
I think 80 munitions could be too cheap but a rework with less damage and more supression (similar to the ost variant) for a lower price could fit nicely.
Even if the green cover is working teamweapons or infantry get reduced to ~ 75% of their hp.
Infantry in yellow cover gets annihilated as well, but infantry can retreat fast and HMGs usually are either in green cover to gain less incoming damage/supression or no cover to avoid grenade/indirect wipes due to the better spread.
26 Jul 2019, 16:40 PM
#3
Posts: 3260
The M5 in that doctrine used to cost 350 MP too.
CoH 2 has very arbitrary pricing.
CoH 2 has very arbitrary pricing.
26 Jul 2019, 18:32 PM
#4
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
The M5 is the same price now.
*phew*
*phew*
26 Jul 2019, 18:33 PM
#5
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
People on this forum think that combined arms, ability that makes your tanks shoot slower for 125 muni, is good ability. Single pass strafe suppressing squad for 3 seconds for 125 muni seems like most broken shit ever in comparison. At least it doesnt make your units perform worse.
Up cost to 150 muni.
Up cost to 150 muni.
26 Jul 2019, 18:53 PM
#6
Posts: 186
People on this forum think that combined arms, ability that makes your tanks shoot slower for 125 muni, is good ability. Single pass strafe suppressing squad for 3 seconds for 125 muni seems like most broken shit ever in comparison. At least it doesnt make your units perform worse.
Up cost to 150 muni.
Vet 3 m4a3 sherman (with radio net 2), vet 3 m26 pershing and vet3 m36 jackson are the only vehicles were the ability slightly reduces the firerate which maybe should be fixed but up until that point the ability is great to help vetting your shermans, jacksons or especially the pershing faster and maybe even killing faster but definitly allowing pushbacks and fighting way better. The ability probably should be looked at maybe rebalanced and mostly fixed. there has been noone who complained that the price of the ability is too cheap rather the opposite - maybe you should try to take off your "Dwight D. Eisenhower"-tinted glasses and see faults in the game not only on one side?
26 Jul 2019, 18:53 PM
#7
Posts: 495 | Subs: 1
I see no reason that it couldn’t just be reworked to be identical to the Wehrmacht version.
Either that or a cost decrease down a bit. I like the idea of a P-47 machine gun run being a much more powerful attack vs vehicles and tanks (Eight 50 caliber guns all in one spot is enough to kill a tank from above!) but it would be harder to find the right balance between cost and effectiveness against different targets. That’s why the cheaper Wehrmacht version is so great as an ability. It is cheap and has a specific role while the US version mentioned here is expensive but also good against a bunch of different things. Since it’s effective against lots of targets making it too cheap is begging for it to get spammed, but then it ends up being too expensive to ever get used.
Either that or a cost decrease down a bit. I like the idea of a P-47 machine gun run being a much more powerful attack vs vehicles and tanks (Eight 50 caliber guns all in one spot is enough to kill a tank from above!) but it would be harder to find the right balance between cost and effectiveness against different targets. That’s why the cheaper Wehrmacht version is so great as an ability. It is cheap and has a specific role while the US version mentioned here is expensive but also good against a bunch of different things. Since it’s effective against lots of targets making it too cheap is begging for it to get spammed, but then it ends up being too expensive to ever get used.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Semper Fi
26 Jul 2019, 19:12 PM
#8
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
Vet 3 m4a3 sherman (with radio net 2), vet 3 m26 pershing and vet3 m36 jackson are the only vehicles were the ability slightly reduces the firerate which maybe should be fixed but up until that point the ability is great to help vetting your shermans, jacksons or especially the pershing faster and maybe even killing faster but definitly allowing pushbacks and fighting way better. The ability probably should be looked at maybe rebalanced and mostly fixed. there has been noone who complained that the price of the ability is too cheap rather the opposite - maybe you should try to take off your "Dwight D. Eisenhower"-tinted glasses and see faults in the game not only on one side?
I dont need to take off any glasses, i used this ability many times, came to conclusion it sucks and is overpriced, looked at other players to see how they use it, noticed nobody ever uses it and never bothered with it again.
But maybe you are the usf god that we were promised and only you can make good use of this ability, good for you then.
26 Jul 2019, 19:33 PM
#9
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
People on this forum think that combined arms, ability that makes your tanks shoot slower for 125 muni, is good ability.
Don't believe everything you read:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t8XVC6-iJs
Vet 3 Pershing went from 11 shots fired in 45 seconds to 14 shots fired in 45 seconds with CA.
26 Jul 2019, 19:43 PM
#10
Posts: 818
The ability totally wipes support weapons but is highly ineffective vs infantry. It does not reliably hit or do damage, but it can wipe squads, this is not an ideal design.
Solution: The ability should have a larger radius to make it reliably hit even moving infantry if you aim it with some skill and do moderate damage with supression. Kill models if they are low hp, leave them with some hp if they are full hp.
Sidenote:
Looks at title "USF tactical support strafing run"
Looks at discussion "Combined arms is Bad" "No combined arms is good"
Solution: The ability should have a larger radius to make it reliably hit even moving infantry if you aim it with some skill and do moderate damage with supression. Kill models if they are low hp, leave them with some hp if they are full hp.
Sidenote:
Looks at title "USF tactical support strafing run"
Looks at discussion "Combined arms is Bad" "No combined arms is good"
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26 Jul 2019, 19:55 PM
#11
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Solution: The ability should have a larger radius to make it reliably hit even moving infantry if you aim it with some skill and do moderate damage with supression. Kill models if they are low hp, leave them with some hp if they are full hp.
What do you think the cost should be if your suggestion went through?
Looks at discussion "Combined arms is Bad" "No combined arms is good"
You have to crack down on a hoax with stats & tests whenever someone brings one up.
26 Jul 2019, 22:30 PM
#12
Posts: 818
What do you think the cost should be if your suggestion went through?
You have to crack down on a hoax with stats & tests whenever someone brings one up.
Probably 100-125, It would be better to implement it and just get feedback before changing the cost. Function is more important. 125 does seem a bit steep right now though, i was testing it out and thought it was only 100 but was fair at that cost. (similar to light infantry artillery barrage which also costs 100 munis)
I think it should be similar to the JU87 supression loiter which has good area of effect but low damage. Except this USF version could do more damage and not loiter. That one costs I think 140 munitions? but it's inflated b/c of the opel bitz trucks in the doctrine. 125 could be fine for a redesigned ability
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27 Jul 2019, 00:32 AM
#13
Posts: 2358
The M5 in that doctrine used to cost 350 MP too.
CoH 2 has very arbitrary pricing.
I politely disagree, some factions have better push units and some factions suffer more from strafing attacks. Therefore the price difference. Its rather hard to justify exactly why USF variant costs 80 more, but i would recall that USF is facing a strong defensive/reactive faction (OST) and a offensive/proactive one (OKW), from both it hurts mostly OST, because of team weapons.
OST strafe will face SU and USF wich are offensive/reactive and UKF that is Defensive/proactive, in both cases the damage that can be done is less, unless we talk about infantry wipes.
Being said that, i could think of a price reduction with a cooldown extension, like 2x longer
27 Jul 2019, 03:05 AM
#14
Posts: 810
trash skill
need to rework or replace to other skill
solution : replace to P-47 bombing run or rocket run / buff price(125muni -> 80muni) and dmg
need to rework or replace to other skill
solution : replace to P-47 bombing run or rocket run / buff price(125muni -> 80muni) and dmg
27 Jul 2019, 22:38 PM
#15
Posts: 888
People on this forum think that combined arms, ability that makes your tanks shoot slower for 125 muni, is good ability. Single pass strafe suppressing squad for 3 seconds for 125 muni seems like most broken shit ever in comparison. At least it doesnt make your units perform worse.
Up cost to 150 muni.
LOL because it's a USF ability. For some reason they have to have abilities you pay for that get your units killed faster...just like the stupid volley fire RE ability
28 Jul 2019, 01:37 AM
#16
Posts: 785
LOL because it's a USF ability. For some reason they have to have abilities you pay for that get your units killed faster...just like the stupid volley fire RE ability
Just FYI, Volley fire got buffed and is actually useable now. Ability RA was changed from 1.4 to 1.25 iirc, so you will still take more hits, but not enough to commit suicide in a 1v1 rifle duel for 20 munitions.
Apparently also the combined arms ability does not overwrite superior vet bonuses (at least, based on a video that made its rounds here some time ago). I am still not 100% sold on that, however, and I do agree with most that the ability (and this one too) is overpriced, but that's just how munitions works for USF.
trash skill
need to rework or replace to other skill
solution : replace to P-47 bombing run or rocket run / buff price(125muni -> 80muni) and dmg
Im opposed to replacing any ability with another; more variety is a very good thing. 100 or even 110 munitions sounds good to me.
28 Jul 2019, 02:02 AM
#17
Posts: 888
Just FYI, Volley fire got buffed and is actually useable now. Ability RA was changed from 1.4 to 1.25 iirc, so you will still take more hits, but not enough to commit suicide in a 1v1 rifle duel for 20 munitions.
Apparently also the combined arms ability does not overwrite superior vet bonuses (at least, based on a video that made its rounds here some time ago). I am still not 100% sold on that, however, and I do agree with most that the ability (and this one too) is overpriced, but that's just how munitions works for USF.
Im opposed to replacing any ability with another; more variety is a very good thing. 100 or even 110 munitions sounds good to me.
I stand corrected then. Never bothered to use Volley Fire since I started playing this game two years ago.
28 Jul 2019, 07:55 AM
#18
Posts: 810
Just FYI, Volley fire got buffed and is actually useable now. Ability RA was changed from 1.4 to 1.25 iirc, so you will still take more hits, but not enough to commit suicide in a 1v1 rifle duel for 20 munitions.
Apparently also the combined arms ability does not overwrite superior vet bonuses (at least, based on a video that made its rounds here some time ago). I am still not 100% sold on that, however, and I do agree with most that the ability (and this one too) is overpriced, but that's just how munitions works for USF.
Im opposed to replacing any ability with another; more variety is a very good thing. 100 or even 110 munitions sounds good to me.
100 muni is still expensive and there is no reason to use this trash
28 Jul 2019, 16:48 PM
#19
Posts: 1954
100 muni is still expensive and there is no reason to use this trash
I tried the strafing run after seeing the claim that it reliably decrews MG's in green cover at the edges of the map. I got no decrews in the one game that I tried it. I'd rather have a cut-and=paste of any of the OST skill planes.
28 Jul 2019, 18:31 PM
#20
Posts: 563
You could turn it into a 2 plane loiter. But i belive that people would hardly be fan of more skill plane, especially with calliope.
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