From all soviet tech tree, su-76 is the worst armor unit. It could fight only against light armor (and puma will be very risky opponent due high mobility and turret). For it's cost it's absolutely bad unit. Su-76 very closer to old ostwind in terms of performance. Every faust crit your engine, even HMG with ap rounds could easily kill it, because bad pathing give you little chances to maneuvre, you don't have smoke as puma. Now in SU t3 exist only 2 valuable units: t-70 and AA-halftruck. Only 60 range is good, but all other stats...i prefer stug or puma, because they much easier in realization than this "crippled" TD.
My suggestions:
1) Instead of selfspotting ability, add stealth, with increased penetration and damage for 1-st shot. All ligt TD historically acted from ambush, because light armor don't give enough protection in head-to-head fight.
2) Instead of barrage, add artillery mode - su-76 become stationary and work like USF pack howitzer. SU-76 get the same debuff to movement speed as su-85, when artillery mode is deactivated.
SU-76 Rework
12 Jul 2019, 10:03 AM
#1
Posts: 711
12 Jul 2019, 10:09 AM
#2
Posts: 173
playercard plz
12 Jul 2019, 10:12 AM
#3
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
As a SU76 lover I must disagree completely with you. Two SU76s are imo MUCH better than a single SU85... in every single aspect. And they got a barrage vs blobs or teamweapons too. Even if you lose one of your SU76 in a fight, the trade is worth it a lot of times with how cheap they are.
Even a single SU76 is enough to keep p4 or ostwind away if you use it correctly. But a group of 2-3 SU76 is just amazing
Even a single SU76 is enough to keep p4 or ostwind away if you use it correctly. But a group of 2-3 SU76 is just amazing
12 Jul 2019, 10:15 AM
#4
Posts: 4474
it's fine as it is, 60 range almost gives it an edge against the stug, and now with the changes it's even more of a LV and medium tank counter
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
12 Jul 2019, 11:02 AM
#5
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
It already recieved the needed "rework" in the last patch with the penetration and accuracy changes.
12 Jul 2019, 11:38 AM
#6
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Not a fan of the penetration nerf since when a Panther appears the su76 becomes redundant. A vet 3 penetration buff would be welcome.
12 Jul 2019, 11:52 AM
#7
Posts: 711
It already recieved the needed "rework" in the last patch with the penetration and accuracy changes.
Penetration nerf the most needed tweak for all light TD... With old su-76 i never had problems with accuracy and rotation and i don't say that change from 30 to 32 rotation make su-76 more mobile. It still the same very fragile thing as it was before.
Ostwind was tweaked and returned to OST roster, SU-76 was tweaked...and where it is? I saw many games where OST player build stugs to deal with armor (especially after panther lost), but i never saw even one game, where su player build su-76 after su85 lost. If you have T4 you better build su-85 to deal with armor, no one never will be build 2 su-76, even if their overall damage higher than 1 su-85. Much safer way is build Zis-3, not su-76.
Window of possibilities to su-76 very narrow. To deal with light vehicles you could use penals with PTRS and 1 zis. In every possible situation zis will be much more safer option that su-76 (with the same abilitties to selfspotting and barrage). You could build one, if you t-70 was very quick killed, but if you will do that, you will dealy your T4 and your overall position could become more fragile.
That's why i want to see su-76 rework. It need or stats changes or completely another role than current.
12 Jul 2019, 12:13 PM
#8
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I saw many games where OST player build stugs to deal with armor (especially after panther lost), but i never saw even one game, where su player build su-76 after su85 lost.
You shouldn't directly compare Ostheer T3 and Soviet T3, and neither the StuG to the SU-76. Ostheer T3 is meant to be viable as an end tier, with their T4 having specialized "bonus" units, while Soviet T3 is just meant as a stepping stone for the mid game to transition into end game T4 with. To that end the StuG is also meant work versus most Allied armor (except heavies) while the SU-76 isn't (even though it does quite well in numbers).
12 Jul 2019, 12:17 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Don't fix what isn't broken.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Jul 2019, 12:42 PM
#10
Posts: 711
Don't fix what isn't broken.
Maybe then just throw away this unit from SU roster? I think even without su-76 SU gameplay will be the same:
T3:T-70---->T-4
Have problems with armor or quick lost t-70?--->Zis-3+penals with PTRS, or zis-3 + cons with at nades.
Just told me in which part of game su-76 have it's own place? It was build when penals don't have PTRS, but now role of su-76 as weapon against light and medium fully overlapped by PTRS and zis. You don't need su-76 anymore.
12 Jul 2019, 12:51 PM
#11
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
I'd love to see the artillery mode of the SU-76 work more like the KV-2
actually. Lost of sight, for faster reload. Fast spam of shells at target
out of minimum range (At cost of movement) takes awhile to recuperate move.
The ambush part is nice, too. Like a Puppchen PAK?
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
12 Jul 2019, 13:07 PM
#12
Posts: 83
rework would be good since only reason to build t3 now is t70,it's not like su-76 are bad or underperforming,there just better ways to deal with tanks
making zis perforning same as su-76,barrage a little worse but not much
sov better save his fuel to tec up especially with 7 man cons upgrade than making su-76
making zis perforning same as su-76,barrage a little worse but not much
sov better save his fuel to tec up especially with 7 man cons upgrade than making su-76
12 Jul 2019, 13:31 PM
#13
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
rework would be good since only reason to build t3 now is t70,it's not like su-76 are bad or underperforming,there just better ways to deal with tanks
making zis perforning same as su-76,barrage a little worse but not much
sov better save his fuel to tec up especially with 7 man cons upgrade than making su-76
Exactly, the zis makes the su76 redundant.
12 Jul 2019, 14:12 PM
#14
Posts: 711
One of possible decisions it's just move su-76 to T4 and make from it light version of priest with low health and little possibilities to AT. Give it regular and smoke barrage. It will be completely different role, but at least it will be much better than current one.
12 Jul 2019, 15:40 PM
#15
Posts: 607
If the heavy tank call-ins all get tied to tech, I'll be more inclined to agree that su-76 may need some rework.
As of right now though, you can very easily afford to use multiple su-76s along with an is-2, isu-152, or kv-2 to play a satisfying and effective end-game without ever needing to tech to tier-4 (which means you can use more su-76s).
Their low cost also means that throwing one to kill a more expensive unit is often a very good trade.
They're not very strong or "meta" IMO, but they have their use and they're decent at their role.
If it ever comes time to change it, I think leaving the main gun as is will be fine but modifying it's secondary ability and buffing it's rotation will be the way to go.
As of right now though, you can very easily afford to use multiple su-76s along with an is-2, isu-152, or kv-2 to play a satisfying and effective end-game without ever needing to tech to tier-4 (which means you can use more su-76s).
Their low cost also means that throwing one to kill a more expensive unit is often a very good trade.
They're not very strong or "meta" IMO, but they have their use and they're decent at their role.
If it ever comes time to change it, I think leaving the main gun as is will be fine but modifying it's secondary ability and buffing it's rotation will be the way to go.
12 Jul 2019, 16:29 PM
#16
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
A rare vehicle now I'd say, but I still have nightmares about the Su-76 hordes of before, and that keeps me from saying I'd ever want it buffed.
12 Jul 2019, 16:37 PM
#17
Posts: 711
As of right now though, you can very easily afford to use multiple su-76s along with an is-2, isu-152, or kv-2 to play a satisfying and effective end-game without ever needing to tech to tier-4 (which means you can use more su-76s).
Their low cost also means that throwing one to kill a more expensive unit is often a very good trade.
They're not very strong or "meta" IMO, but they have their use and they're decent at their role.
How much games i've seen, i never saw that someone tried to do this. The most "meta" way is t70 + 2 zis. Because to be effective you need at least 2 su-76 (against 1 p4, when 2-nd p4 is coming you will be in downside), or su-76 + zis. And don't forget about soviet bridgestone - t-70. All this need big amounts of fuel. Every builded su-76 delay your heavy on 75 fuel. That do such strategy only good on paper. Every died su-76 lead you to lack of AT power. Try to build new one? Good luck. Instead of russian roulete with su-76 - zis guns will never betray you, they have the same abilities and range as su-76, have much better damage and with veterancy get sinister power against armor units. 2 ace zis guns could stop even heavy tank.
Must say that i tried such way - through spam of su-76, but it worked only with old su-76 (when su-76 and stug have very high rate of fire). But even in such case, it worked only against more weaker opponent. Because more potent players just use at-stuka strafe or double stealth raks - all this kill your su-76 very fast.
12 Jul 2019, 16:50 PM
#18
Posts: 607
Like I said, it's not "meta", but it is satisfying and can be effective. Obviously this is player dependent and what you do with the units you have is going to be huge.
Worth noting, I don't play 1v1s so it may vary radically based on that.
Yes, there are ways to counter it but that's the case with anything.
Eh, I currently don't think they need a buff right now but that's because their synergy is dependent on having a heavy-call in for the late game. Once that's removed and you must go tier-4, then the entire thing changes.
I'm also very hesitant to call for changing units. I think we have way too much of that in this community already.
Worth noting, I don't play 1v1s so it may vary radically based on that.
Yes, there are ways to counter it but that's the case with anything.
Eh, I currently don't think they need a buff right now but that's because their synergy is dependent on having a heavy-call in for the late game. Once that's removed and you must go tier-4, then the entire thing changes.
I'm also very hesitant to call for changing units. I think we have way too much of that in this community already.
12 Jul 2019, 17:16 PM
#19
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
I'd like to see it as a kind of Soviet Scott.
But more like KV-2 with AT.
Germans want it's AT nerfed.
So buff it's indirect firepower. Easy!
But more like KV-2 with AT.
Germans want it's AT nerfed.
So buff it's indirect firepower. Easy!
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
12 Jul 2019, 18:02 PM
#20
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
A rare vehicle now I'd say, but I still have nightmares about the Su-76 hordes of before, and that keeps me from saying I'd ever want it buffed.
At the time, the barrage was free, so you could use them to lump 12 HE rounds into a squad in a tiny time window.
The MU cost on the barrage killed SU-76 spam dead in one stroke.
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