Machine Guns

Increasing maxim suppression will make it very very hard to counter. Wehr grens need to stay still to shoot.

Then it's a good thing pgrens just got buffed and made more accessible....

Try being less biased? I don't know how you can possibly believe the maxim is fine but the 42 needs a buff without some intense bias

Con squad and a maxim are 80mp and 10fu more than an mg42 and a gren squad if we want to compare the mgs and their early supporting infantry. That's without even delving into the disparity between the engineers...
The maxim costs the same as the mg42 but also with a 160mp teching cost that is exclusive with all Infantry. Yet it is undeniably the bottom of the barrel as far as mgs go. The fact that it's only even somewhat usable if it has a 6 man crew is just testimony to how awful it is. It's practically unusable outside the Soviet hands and entirety undesirable.
The 6man crew is supposed to be a bonus not a lynch pin in the performance of the gun

I think it's undeniable however that the 6man crew is a boon that needs to be taken into account as the unit will be built with one. I belive trying to balance in the parameters of all other MGs isn't possible and it should be made function properly (enough that you want to capture one given the chance, like all other MGs) and priced accordingly instead of set at a a price and tried to make work within the constraints of that.

We have never had the Soviet with cons, penals and maxims all viable choices at the same time so it is ALWAYS "spam the one that is strongest" I'd like to see more than just a 1 dimensional spam be an option. Cons should be working well with both tiers and maxims need to be worth while to make t2 viable.
A more expensive but good maxim means spam loses all spam capacity and forces cons to make up map control but as long as the price is close enough and cons unviable a player going maxim will simply spam them, a good unit or not.

Imo it shouldn't be equal price between mg42 or maxims simply because one is Soviet and the other is OST. Each faction develop a different playstyle and resources only mean time since they are not harvested. If both faction have equal cost/performance you simply clone a faction into another and that's boring.

To force Soviets into swarming infantry and to force ost into support weapons you tweak prices. To compare cost between faction is less ideal since not all of them have to trade in 1vs1 and even less trade cost effectively to do its job.

Also mg42 is known to be the best "as a gift" to OST, which pays backs with no light tank. Soviet has t70 to scale early mid game. Or you want to clone t70s into OST too?

Same for .50 Cal and Allies bias

The only change I think the .50 cal needs is to change it's pop from 7 to 6. I can live with the rest but it doesn't deserve a higher pop than the other faction's MGs.

As for the Maxium just make it like the Vickers without the penn vs vehciles and give it a 4 man crew. That way you get a better supression platform without being too hard to kill when flanked and yet still justifying it's 240 MP cost.

So what's the best Allied MG right now? Before i stopped playing, the DSHK could suppress very well, but it looks like it was nerfed

So what's the best Allied MG right now? Before i stopped playing, the DSHK could suppress very well, but it looks like it was nerfed

I'd say the 50 cal even if it does feel squishy.

LOL @ 7 pages of debates from people saying the maxim shouldnt have its suppression buffed or that the mg42 should seriously be buffed.

Imo it shouldn't be equal price between mg42 or maxims simply because one is Soviet and the other is OST. Each faction develop a different playstyle and resources only mean time since they are not harvested. If both faction have equal cost/performance you simply clone a faction into another and that's boring.

To force Soviets into swarming infantry and to force ost into support weapons you tweak prices. To compare cost between faction is less ideal since not all of them have to trade in 1vs1 and even less trade cost effectively to do its job.

Also mg42 is known to be the best "as a gift" to OST, which pays backs with no light tank. Soviet has t70 to scale early mid game. Or you want to clone t70s into OST too?

a suppression platform is a different animal than a light tank, the ability to not be walked right over by massed (perhaps STG armed?) infantry is a right that all factions should have, and since the mg34 was moved from doctrines and made as accessible as possible for the okw id think that the powers that be agree.
i do agree that its hard to judge units across factions, but when the price point and intended job is the exact same and timing is about as close as it gets yet performance is opposite ends of the spectrum it needs pointing out imo.
if the maxims suppressed as well as the mg34 but still had its 6 man crew and cost something like 300 mp it would be less of an issue as costing the same as the mg42 and having a 6 man crew but also needing the 6 man crew to maybe sometimes escape but usually not because it cant stop infantry walking straight at it unless it has vet and preloads ammo (which, again to draw from across the aisle, the axis mgs have increased damage and pen in the same slot, not "do your fucking job") and likley to still deathloop. infantry should be retreating from mgs that they run into head on, not the other way around....

As for the Maxium just make it like the Vickers without the penn vs vehicles and give it a 4 man crew. That way you get a better suppression platform without being too hard to kill when flanked and yet still justifying it's 240 MP cost.

congrats, you just renabled maxim spam while somehow both making it more effective and harder punished.... spam so hard until a counter comeos out then probably just drop because there is no coming back from all your mgs dying over each other trying to decide who has to push the mg through the fire...
it CANNOT be made squishier because of the deathloop. but it also cant be made work at the price point because of the 6 man crew, but at this price point its underpowered at its intended role. making it cheaper and worse wont fix it, it needs to be made more expensive (prevents spam via hurting map control alot, and also raises the amount of attribute points it can have) and better(to.... do its job....)

So what's the best Allied MG right now? Before i stopped playing, the DSHK could suppress very well, but it looks like it was nerfed

DSHK or .50 cal probably. both are premium priced and very effective while also doing decent damage to lights which is nifty. 50 has a wider arc but the maxim has extra men- granted the dshk also deathloops, but thats from a flank, not a head on engagement, like mgs should both of those monsters punish walking directly at them

I agree with thedarkarmadillo, but truth be told, Mg42 makes suppression so easy that skill or luck requirements are almost non existant. Maxims do require a better placing and strategic thinking, as i tried to show, maxims do very well when garrisoned, because they move quicker and their durability coupled with the heavy cover does wonders.

If only soviets could have a cheaper bunker building, or a MG nest to couple with maxims they could do what they are intended without too much sacrifice.

I have to point a suppression buff to maxims is worth trying since nowdays the game has got a lot more mobile, infantry squads have received lots of buffs to enable them push enemy lines, maxims have been left behind because other SU units being able to carry their games.

maxims do very well when garrisoned, because they move quicker and their durability coupled with the heavy cover does wonders.

All MG are supposed to be moving at the same speed inside a garrison. It used to be related to reload values of each MG but it was made uniform quite some time ago.

Could the maxim be balanced by giving it the same cone, suppress time and dps as the mg-42, but giving it a very long setup time and a near instant tear down time?

Make the setup time like 1.5x or even 2x the mg-42 to make maxim only openings very risky to push with, but give it an extremely fast (.2s?) tear down time to help with death loop.

The maxim doesn't need mg42statsto function, even mg34 stats would probably suffice...

Could the maxim be balanced by giving it the same cone, suppress time and dps as the mg-42, but giving it a very long setup time and a near instant tear down time?

Make the setup time like 1.5x or even 2x the mg-42 to make maxim only openings very risky to push with, but give it an extremely fast (.2s?) tear down time to help with death loop.

Setup time/tear down means nothing when talking about stationary team weapons, its impact is minimal, also when you get 2 or more HMGS you simply take turns to move each one and that denies setup times.

Maxims are designed as durable HMGs, why dont we just slap a 10% damage reduction to them as they are? If they suppress slowly some units will be able to nuke them with skillshots, giving both sides some play, it might need two fully flanking squads to dislodge them or a 222 or luchs to deal with more than one. It might be prudent to see a zis nerf to adjust oportunity vs exploitability.
Also a very enduring HMG could find use in lategame when RNG and long range damage is present everywhere.
This idea also solves partially deathloop, at least is harder for secure each model kill before maxim unpacks.

This focus puts maxims on a midgame-lategame worth HMG, when frontlines are defined and stationary gameplay is needed for a strong defense.
Its not maxim spam if they are massed at min 50.

If it is really neccesary some extra RA bonus could come with the use of the vet1 ability.
And i would really like to know if there is a way to change unit stats when deployed vs mobile stances.
Mg34 stats could be used too, as a last resort

Setup and tear down are actually big concerns with the maxim especially. When you’re talking about a potentially spammable unit that you don’t want replacing cons, having it extremely vulnerable while trying to reposition is a big deal.

Just had an idea here. You know how the old Kuble had to be stationary for a few seconds before it suppressed? What if the maxim worked kinda like that?
If it had to be static for a few seconds to start properly suppressing we fix the issue of attack move maxims. It could still be used as an attack MG that can deal damage but if set up properly in wait it can also stop an attack.
Idk... I'm trying....

Just had an idea here. You know how the old Kuble had to be stationary for a few seconds before it suppressed? What if the maxim worked kinda like that?
If it had to be static for a few seconds to start properly suppressing we fix the issue of attack move maxims. It could still be used as an attack MG that can deal damage but if set up properly in wait it can also stop an attack.
Idk... I'm trying....

Lol I feel you dude. The shadow of a-move maxim spam hangs heavy over the unit to this day. I feel like very long setup times, near instant tear down times, and real boy MG stats would be something to at least explore in a mod but I’m no modder.

Your idea seems like it could work too cause it’s similar to a long setup time but it might be confusing with no indication of when the switch happens. Might be less frustrating for the people using the maxims than a very long setup time.