For the Love Of God M1 Pack Howitzer

Or its used because its the only indirect piece OKW has outside of a walking stuka?

Outside of the strongest most reliable earliest arriving rocket arty in the entire game, you mean. Can we stop making OKW out to be the poor ones in this scenario?

The Pak Howy is too strong against Ost, totally. If you're gonna tell me it's unfair to OKW? With all the ridiculous tools they have? They literally have maphacks in the same tier as the Leig. If that thing was pak Howy strong that would be a ridiculous combo

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Unrelated, why exactly was USF given mortar in t0? Was it because smoke-nades got removed from riflemen?
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It is the other way around. First the got the mortar then the smoke grenades where removed.

USF had hard time dealing with garrison without unlocking grenades, so the idea was that they could get a light mortar more suitable for delivering smoke. Some where on they way they lost their aim and got a very good mortar instead.

Then smoke grenades started overlapping with the mortar so they where moved to officer and RE.

And then mortars where simply redesigned. Finally USF tech was also redesigned and USF end with easier access to powerful support weapons.

It is the other way around. First the got the mortar then the smoke grenades where removed.

USF had hard time dealing with garrison without unlocking grenades, so the idea was that they could get a light mortar more suitable for delivering smoke. Some where on they way they lost their aim and got a very good mortar instead.

Then smoke grenades started overlapping with the mortar so they where moved to officer and RE.

And then mortars where simply redesigned. Finally USF tech was also redesigned and USF end with easy access to powerful support weapons.

I see, thanks for the info.

It's funny that the smoke-nades were removed because they overlapped with the mortar only for the mortar to overlap with the pack/scott. Oh well.

and is straight up laughable compared to the pakhowi at only 70MP less. Like seriously,

ok and now compare rifleman price and rangers price and of course timing.
Or u want tell me rangers are op too then no comment pls

Outside of the strongest most reliable earliest arriving rocket arty in the entire game, you mean. Can we stop making OKW out to be the poor ones in this scenario?

The Pak Howy is too strong against Ost, totally. If you're gonna tell me it's unfair to OKW? With all the ridiculous tools they have? They literally have maphacks in the same tier as the Leig. If that thing was pak Howy strong that would be a ridiculous combo

so True

And then mortars where simply redesigned. Finally USF tech was also redesigned and USF end with easy access to powerful support weapons.

That is simply not true. It's 90 fuel minimum for .50, pak howy, and 57mm. That's WAY more than anyone else spends for their support weapons. Soviets spend 20, Brits 30, OKW 40 minimum, Ost 60.

It's 70 even if you cut out the pak Howy, since they get the 81mm, which is still more and that leaves you without any light vehicles. Or weapon upgrades/grenades

The old teching was indisputably awful. It's "easy" compared to that, because that was 110fu for support weapons

That is simply not true. It's 90 fuel minimum for .50, pak howy, and 57mm. That's WAY more than anyone else spends for their support weapons. Soviets spend 30, Brits 30, OKW 40 minimum, Ost 60.

It's 70 even if you cut out the pak Howy, since they get the 81mm, which is still more and that leaves you without any light vehicles. Or weapon upgrades/grenades

The old teching was indisputably awful

Yes it is true.

USF can get stock HMG, ATG, mortar access and 2 officers with 1 bar access and 1 bazooka access for 70-20 = 50 fuel. Pack howitzer is an extra.

And that is without the doctrinal options.

And in addition they get a powerful mainline infatry.

They old teching was part of their design similar to OKW, powerful units but limited access to them. Now they have still have powerful units and easier access to them.

But I will edit the word since you do not like it.

Yes it is true.

USF can get stock HMG, ATG, mortar access and 2 officers with 1 bar access and 1 bazooka access for 70-20 = 50 fuel. Pack howitzer is an extra.

And that is without the doctrinal options.

And in addition they get a powerful mainline infatry.

Their mainlines are only powerful if you upgrade them. Another 30 fuel. I didn't say it's impossible. But if it's "easy" it should be less than others. It's isn't. It's not true.

But I will edit the word since you do not like it.

Who's getting personal now?

Their mainlines are only powerful if you upgrade them. Another 30 fuel. I didn't say it's impossible. But if it's "easy" it should be less than others. It's isn't. It's not true.



Who's getting personal now?

Your entitled to your opinion. I am moving on.

Your entitled to your opinion. I am moving on.

Since when is math an opinion? They literally pay more than everyone else

snip

As far as a few of these points go, I know USF is OP, but the faction has received nothing but buffs for the last 2 1/2 years, I'd expect no less. Some people still think that 110F sherman with better pen on AP rounds than any other stock medium, and HE shells better than any AoE of any stock medium, self repairs and capping power + smokeshells is somehow worse than the OST p4. Honestly idk how people think otherwise, but what I do know is that when you abuse cheese, which is perticularly strong in axis factions it rivals very well with how strong USF has become. I'm looking at the 2x/3x LeIG protected by "fuck-off flak gun" with IRHT in teamgames. Quadruple sector assualts in 4s, Jaegar armor "I have everything I'd ever need" doctrine etc etc. It just really seems like after all this time, we'd be able to address some of this stuff instead of "scope, sry".

When I say "this unit is trash" I mean by comparison. The unit is "ok" at its job, but it certainly is no pak howitzer wipe god.

Vipper answered good as far as grenades goes. They simply weren't able to clear MG42s from garrisons. Plus at the time USF started with only 15F instead of the modern 20F

Outside of the strongest most reliable earliest arriving rocket arty in the entire game, you mean. Can we stop making OKW out to be the poor ones in this scenario?

The Pak Howy is too strong against Ost, totally. If you're gonna tell me it's unfair to OKW? With all the ridiculous tools they have? They literally have maphacks in the same tier as the Leig. If that thing was pak Howy strong that would be a ridiculous combo

Stuka is really niche in 1v1 and won't be called in just to counter a single howi. Even then you'd need to have a significant fuel lead.

All factions have cheese, OKW is no exception.

ok and now compare rifleman price and rangers price and of course timing.
Or u want tell me rangers are op too then no comment pls

Yes rangers are OP. 350MP + 90muni for a squad that can literally solo any axis squad 1v1. I'd say the only time they'd ever lose is if they get combo naded by obers or falls. But in terms of small arms, they never lose. The only downside to them previously was they were in 1 doctrine, a doctrine that was rather niche in teamgames, but dominant as hell in 1s. Now they've been buffed and placed in a 2nd doctrine, one with calliope which is perfection for teamgames, and surprisingly we see more rangers.

And if timing was a huge factor, Obers should actually wield laser weaponry

Stuka is really niche in 1v1 and won't be called in just to counter a single howi. Even then you'd need to have a significant fuel lead.

All factions have cheese, OKW is no exception.

Very true, game mode differences are everything here. I speak as a mostly 2v2 AT player so it's a very different experience. I see w. stukas almost every game against OKW

The pak howy also doesn't lock down a map anywhere near as much there (except maybe on something like crossing) so perhaps i don't see that side of it as easily

Yes rangers are OP. 350MP + 90muni for a squad that can literally solo any axis squad 1v1.

IR STG44 Obersoldaten for 340MP and 60MU win vs Rangers.

IR STG44 Obersoldaten for 340MP and 60MU win vs Rangers.

Tested 10 times, Rangers close in from max range, 7W:3L in favor of rangers. I stand by what I said with a 7:3 W/L. Although it was close most of the time, it still doesn't help that the rangers can close from max and win.

Tested vet 0 paras once too, as expected they lost.

But enough of my ranting about USF OP. Lets get back to the pack howi.

But enough of my ranting about USF OP. Lets get back to the pack howi.

So... still USF OP then?

I think "make it more howy less mortar" is an interesting route. Remove auto fire, buff barrage, and increase cost (possibly adding a fuel cost, like howitzers)

If that's too much just weaken auto fire a good chunk and call it a day. I think id prefer that cause there's less room for error. Just make it's kill radius smaller on auto fire

So... still USF OP then?

always OP.... always.........

Tested 10 times, Rangers close in from max range, 7W:3L in favor of rangers. I stand by what I said with a 7:3 W/L. Although it was close most of the time, it still doesn't help that the rangers can close from max and win.

Tested vet 0 paras once too, as expected they lost.

But enough of my ranting about USF OP. Lets get back to the pack howi.

I noticed this with rangers as well! I dismissed it at first as unlucky rng but after many tests rangers overperform.

People talking about nerfing USF.
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

always OP.... always.........

Apart from steering the discussion heavily offtopic, shouldnt you also as a moderator be unbiased?

I noticed this with rangers as well! I dismissed it at first as unlucky rng but after many tests rangers overperform.

also topicstarter, why don't you take the time to muster a ontopic reply to all of our earlier ones? Or was it just to troll?