For the Love Of God M1 Pack Howitzer

I actually never mentioned to bring back riflemen smoke. I dont think USF needs any compensation.
Pak howie's are effective against static and doesn't mean you dont get an hmg, because you are the one pushing the enemies. By the moment a pak howie needs an Hmg it's late enough to have it or to transition to scotts

Lol, just update your game. Balance team has been busy to bring Oshteer early game to USF level. Ostheer early game bullied meta is over.

so can we lock mg34 in medic truck? u know if u have stuka zu fuss u dont really need mg because i are the one pushing the enemies.
And second u cant tell what is good for usf if u dont actually play this game

I dont care what's best for usf, I care what's best for the game. If some stupid needs to play the game to have the feel they know what they say, I have bad news for you. It's not. I can play right now and say the same things because its design is what's faulty, not its implementation.
Btw streams and cast exist too.

Maybe the problem is within people not wanting to accept changes, or worse they want to feed their ego through some stupid forum discussion.

If you want to lock down mg34 then do it, I dont see anything productive of such argumentation

Lol, just update your game. Balance team has been busy to bring Oshteer early game to USF level. Ostheer early game bullied meta is over.

when someone randomly associates static position gameplay with OST, then there is a biased logic beneath causing lot of noise.

The next time I see ukf simcity I will assume its ost that stole the bofors and the mortar emplacements.

And finally please address to everyone how did ost got buffed? In which aspect specifically? Didn't ost got more early mobility and push power? Is it because teamweapons get countered by more units than before? Is map control so important in earlygame that static gameplay simply forfeits a game?

I think its a combination

1. Most wehr players outside top ranks play incredibly static (double mg early is common, + mg in garrison with at gun) and this static playstyle is very much punished by a heavier arty like pack howie

2. the HEAT shells, this stuff is really RNG wipey and probably bad design, at very very least it should cost muni. I think overall its a bad design.

As for things about pack howie being hard counter / comparing it to mortars like its a valid comparison, or it requiring low micro to be effective etc these are just rock complaining scissors is OP. Going double packie howie puts USF field presence back significantly and is only really feasible against static weapon teams players. Even in that case this playstyle can be punished by putting pressure on the arty (they need to be put up close to the front which is high risk)

I keep pioneers close by. You can either run past them and have your rifles get chewed up or focus them while my mg safely repositions

Then just focus the pios. Forcing an MG to back-up and reposition is still a victory. You don't have wipe something in order to win the engagement

Then just focus the pios. Forcing an MG to back-up and reposition is still a victory. You don't have wipe something in order to win the engagement

Then I don't have to reposition the mg far. You won't be able to engage and get out of the arc in time. Pios do very well vs rifles at point blank range too. The only way you can win is with grenades.

Also, Grenades fail early because the manpower and time to unlock means you will get swarmed. If the enemy is smart, they could frontally charge you and force you to retreat.

Usf sucks in the first minutes before lieutenant or captain. The only is exception is wc51 openings.

honestly yeah. If people continue to use "USF no rocket arty!!!1!1!!!1!" yet literally forget the scott exists as a mobile howitzer nondoc in only the USF faction. Take one, lose one and be done with it. Vippers suggestions of making the scott doctrinal would make perfect sense if calliope was made nondoc in major.

As far as the pak howi goes, I'm still waiting for a response on how to counter the pak howi on faymonville approach where it can shoot base to base. I'm not buying a pwerfer or stuka to counter a single teamweapon, that's rediculous.

edit: Just realized this post is from pages ago and so may not be relevant anymore. My b. Also, reading this thread left me with the impression that some people think a single unit change = "I can now win" when odds are the person who was beating them would just switch to another strategy and keep beating them.

That sounds like a map problem to me.

I remember someone saying the exact same thing regarding the 120mm. Maybe the solution is we shouldn't have maps that allow for base-to-base firing from mortars/ISG/Pack Howitzer?

edit: Just realized this post is from pages ago and so may not be relevant anymore. My b. Also, reading this thread left me with the impression that some people think a single unit change = "I can now win" when odds are the person who was beating them would just switch to another strategy and keep beating them.

That sounds like a map problem to me.

I remember someone saying the exact same thing regarding the 120mm. Maybe the solution is we shouldn't have maps that allow for base-to-base firing from mortars/ISG/Pack Howitzer?

Happens. I still haven't gotten an answer to the question besides you though, and it largely is a map problem, but that doesn't take away from it being virtually uncounterable on that map.

Then I don't have to reposition the mg far. You won't be able to engage and get out of the arc in time. Pios do very well vs rifles at point blank range too. The only way you can win is with grenades.

If your forced your opponent to babysit a MG42, that's also a victory.

If your forced your opponent to babysit a MG42, that's also a victory.

I don't think you understand. I want to obliterate their entire army instantly and anything short of that is useless! It doesn't matter if the enemy is using combined arms, I don't want to because any counterplay they apply makes me playing completely irrelevant!

I don't think you understand. I want to obliterate their entire army instantly and anything short of that is useless! It doesn't matter if the enemy is using combined arms, I don't want to because any counterplay they apply makes me playing completely irrelevant!

I can go even further. I want to play with a team and against teams ranked 20 and below, and I don't want to get kicked for building stupid build orders. This includes not giving the enemy free fuel so they can rush out brumbars, Panthers, p4's, or pwerfers. I also would like to have more tools so early combined arms is an option.

If you don't want to get base r8ped, I would suggest building something OTHER than teamweapons.

I would suggest building something OTHER than teamweapons.

Good thing that OST has capable and scalable mainline infantry. /s

Oh wait, thats USF.

OST simply can not depend on something other than team weapons, thats kinda their entire shtick, which is why a mortar, that doesnt exactly come very late, shouldn't entirely counter OSTs main strength.

They can open with snipers(I do this everygame) or assault gens. Assault grens/mg combo is hilariously fun vs usf. The bad players build mgs into mortars straight away. It would be a dominate strategy if halftracks and pak howies were not powerful.

I can go even further. I want to play with a team and against teams ranked 20 and below, and I don't want to get kicked for building stupid build orders. This includes not giving the enemy free fuel so they can rush out brumbars, Panthers, p4's, or pwerfers. I also would like to have more tools so early combined arms is an option.

If you don't want to get base r8ped, I would suggest building something OTHER than teamweapons.

Tools that will help negate the enemy's advantage of the best MG in game? Things like a t0 mortar? Smoke is a very powerful tool, if you know there is going to be an MG, it's powerful being able to force that to not work.

Happens. I still haven't gotten an answer to the question besides you though, and it largely is a map problem, but that doesn't take away from it being virtually uncounterable on that map.

Also mortar pits were nerfed for similar reasons, even though in larger maps/gamemodes it was less of an issue. So map issue or not it's been done before

I wouldn't like a range reduction though, it should feel like a light howitzer. I wonder if the manual positioning is worth re-visiting. Weaken auto-fire and make it require some more input as well

That is the least effective way. Me and others tried using the usf mortar vs mg openers. We all scrapped it from our builds after several attempts to try and get it to work. The mortar smoke is only useful for blocking Los vs snipers. Mgs reposition and are covered by pioneers, and the ostheer mortar builds beats usf mortar builds.

Tools that will help negate the enemy's advantage of the best MG in game? Things like a t0 mortar? Smoke is a very powerful tool, if you know there is going to be an MG, it's powerful being able to force that to not work.

Have you even used the mortar against mg42?
Like I see people regurgitate this, and just can't tell if they're playing the same game

The only change I could see working that doesn't remove the pack howitzer from gameplay completely is a price nerf. This thing is less a mortar and more a mobile howitzer (hence the name).

Remove auto-fire? Useless versus infantry clumps and no longer at all cost-efficient compared to the mortar. Would need completely reworked veterancy and much better barrages to be anywhere near useable. Every static howitzer has at least double the damage and better aoe, besides not having the weird slow-sailing projectiles.

Reduce range (further)? The pack howitzer is already extremely vulnerable. They would need to reduce the crew RA (125% currently) at the very least, probably improve projectile speed or spread as well.

Reduce damage? Again, this just reduces the pack howitzer to a mortar. It's not a mortar. It's a non-doctrinal mobile howitzer, less deadly and far easier to kill than the static buildable ones, with a shorter range and less damage, but better scatter. It is in fact incapable of killing an infantry unit in a single hit (80*0.85 = 68) unlike the lefh or m-30, and its projectiles are all slow and visible enough to be practically dodgeable. Further reduction of damage shouldn't be done unless projectiles are either faster or more accurate so as to improve probability of impact, which I doubt anyone complaining about the pack howitzer would want.

Way I see it, add a further fuel cost to the pack howitzer, something minor, maybe 25, and see if that pushes their deployment time back any. Maybe some sort of teardown/setup nerf could also make them more killable via off-map artillery (which is the primary method of destroying non-mobile howitzers).

And as for the pack howitzer being uncounterable on some maps, this is essentially true for all howitzers, and all I can say to it is that I very much wish I could be able to kill a lefh as easily, much less steal them from the enemy.

Happens. I still haven't gotten an answer to the question besides you though, and it largely is a map problem, but that doesn't take away from it being virtually uncounterable on that map.

Right... so why not we lobby to change the map? I mean, do whatever with the pack-howitzer (I am not a fan of auto-attacking indirect units anyway), but it seems that the problem will exist regardless.