Posts: 3260
It is not 400 MP and 30 fuel.
It is 200MP and 30 fuel. It is somewhat worth it. Considering also its timing.
Posts: 783
I would personally prefer Ostheer didn't have nondoc AT weapons if they skip T2. The previous dynamic worked fairly well and I don't think introducing this skip is to the benefit of the faction design.
PGrens in T0 are cool, but Panzerschrecks in T0 undermines the balance on which T2 was priced. Either that balance needs to be restored or T2 needs to be repriced to reflect it's new, reduced value.
Failing that, I'd like to see some action taken to better balance teching T2 against skipping T2. The current dynamic heavily rewards skipping T2. T2 becoming off-meta would be a great shame given how good a tier design it is.
ukf
usf
okw
soviets
ostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. 
Posts: 5279
Posts: 783
I think tieing the Shreks to t2 is a good choice. Making the tier redundant is bad design and osts tech design is SUPPOSED ATO BE about each thing (building or tech) giving you things. Pgrens available earlier is a good change, but there should be some balancing factor for that. Otherwise it's just as much of a no Brainer as ptrs penals as far as "great AI unit and easy AT if you need it" that's not how Ost was designed and each tier should be valuable. Adjust the cost of the tier if needed but it should be built for AT imo.
ukfusfokwsovietsostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. Posts: 3260
I think tieing the Shreks to t2 is a good choice. Making the tier redundant is bad design and osts tech design is SUPPOSED ATO BE about each thing (building or tech) giving you things. Pgrens available earlier is a good change, but there should be some balancing factor for that. Otherwise it's just as much of a no Brainer as ptrs penals as far as "great AI unit and easy AT if you need it" that's not how Ost was designed and each tier should be valuable. Adjust the cost of the tier if needed but it should be built for AT imo.
Posts: 711
Posts: 1392
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I would personally prefer Ostheer didn't have nondoc AT weapons if they skip T2. The previous dynamic worked fairly well and I don't think introducing this skip is to the benefit of the faction design.
PGrens in T0 are cool, but Panzerschrecks in T0 undermines the balance on which T2 was priced. Either that balance needs to be restored or T2 needs to be repriced to reflect it's new, reduced value.
Failing that, I'd like to see some action taken to better balance teching T2 against skipping T2. The current dynamic heavily rewards skipping T2. T2 becoming off-meta would be a great shame given how good a tier design it is.
Posts: 110
"Change the whole new design?" How is locking shreck upgrade behind the same tech the entire unit used to be behind a radical change? It's such a minor tweak
Posts: 1392
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
By the way, why Ostheer player should pay more for Psreck research than opponent for LV research?
Posts: 5279
Seems fair.
I also think about split Schreck-upgrade into two. 1st Schreck (50mun) if T2 was searched, 2nd Schreck (50mun) if T2 was build.
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I spoke about giving them abilities to give them jobs in late-game. Never spoke about real buffs
Posts: 110
You're comparing apples to oranges, other things come with those tech costs besides LVs and Shrecks...
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Same comes to USF: 10 or 15 fúel for access to Lu's or cap vehicles.
Posts: 5279
No, I'm not.
For getting a T70 you pay nothing, it somes with building which you cannot ignore.
AEC tech is 15, while OP is pretending to pay 20 for possibility of schreck grade.
Same comes to USF: 10 or 15 fúel for access to Lu's or cap vehicles.
For G-ds sake, people are ignoring building of SU-76 and jump straight into T-34-85, we need to buff SU-76 or add tech requirement for... I don't know, penal PTRS (da hell I am speaking right now?) so people will not ignore this unit.
The whole thread is about "O, they do this, I don't like it, let's change it".
Posts: 110
Also I have no clue what you're talking about with the t70. You pay for it's tech building...
Posts: 110
Skipping techs when possible is supposed to have drawbacks. It's supposed to be a choice that the player needs to make where the benifit of quicker tech faces off against the risk of not having what that tech offers. In this case T2 is supposed to house AT meaning skipping it and quick teching leaves clear counterplay- vehicles. Being able to get Shreks which are terribly effective against the target vehicles (it only takes 2 volleys to kill a light tank, meaning if 1 volley hits the tank needs to fall back) removes the risk in skipping. It's bad design.
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