Ostwind's penetrations

Jump back to quoted post23 Jul 2019, 16:00 PMMakiesKurisu

It did not change its role as a inf killing machine by just nerfing its range or dps outside AT infs or dps against multiple squads, The situation is somewhat similar to the pre patched Brummber. A inf killing machine is ok, but a inf killing machine that could easily dealing with AT staff for its timing is not ok.
And Ostwind now is also somehow overlapping brummber.
Centaur actually has more armour but shercks have more pen,

Jump back to quoted post23 Jul 2019, 21:39 PMMazianni

Even the 2 second longer reload is mostly meaningless. A panzershreck, assuming it hits every time, will do more damage in a minute of continuous firing than a bazooka will*, and unlike the bazooka, is more likely to actually hit and penetrate every time.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 00:31 AMdistrofio

But they dont, thats why zook/shrecks are balanced as they are. Why dont you "assume that zooks do twice the damage" and then post trash experiment results?
I am going to guess, its not going to leave the "nerf axis" argument in a good position, isnt it?

Jump back to quoted post23 Jul 2019, 21:39 PMMazianni

Just posting here because I keep seeing this come up whenever shrecks get mentioned.

Panzershrecks have the same exact aim time as bazookas. The exact same. The absolute only downside in comparing the Panzershreck to the bazooka or PIAT is a 2.0 second longer reload time (7.75 to 5.75) and (in the case of the bazooka) marginally worse far range accuracy. The panzershreck is superior in every other regard, including short and mid range accuracy, and benefits from generally higher Axis accuracy veterancy bonuses to an extent that makes the initial .006 accuracy drop at max range compared to the bazooka meaningless.

Even the 2 second longer reload is mostly meaningless. A panzershreck, assuming it hits every time, will do more damage in a minute of continuous firing than a bazooka will*, and unlike the bazooka, is more likely to actually hit and penetrate every time.

*quick calculation 859.701492 vs 752.941177 (60/(reload+aimtime)*damage)

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 03:08 AMVipper

The vet bonuses actually favor Bazooka due to timing, especially since units have different XP values:
Accuracy for PG at vet 3
Accuracy for SP at vet 4
Rear echelon vet 1

(only the doctrinal PF get accuracy at vet 2)

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 03:08 AMVipper

The vet bonuses actually favor Bazooka due to timing, especially since units have different XP values:
Accuracy for PG at vet 3
Accuracy for SP at vet 4
Rear echelon vet 1

(only the doctrinal PF get accuracy at vet 2)

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 00:25 AMdistrofio

basically a more expensive, later to come, AI dedicated, ex-trash, reactive unit (picked because of massed infantry) unit has to surrender itself to the most common units in allied openings, widely massed and highly adaptable infantry to basically become trash again.

A tool designed to deterr blobs, its going to get nerfed to not be able to do it anymore.
Do you want to promote blobbing?

The only infantry ostwind will be a killing machine for will be combat engineers and afk snipers.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 04:18 AMMakiesKurisu

Ex-trash have nothing to do with current performance.
Lower its dps outside AT infs range just give allies something moblie to defend themselves against it

Jump back to quoted post23 Jul 2019, 21:39 PMMazianni

Just posting here because I keep seeing this come up whenever shrecks get mentioned.

Panzershrecks have the same exact aim time as bazookas. The exact same. The absolute only downside in comparing the Panzershreck to the bazooka or PIAT is a 2.0 second longer reload time (7.75 to 5.75) and (in the case of the bazooka) marginally worse far range accuracy. The panzershreck is superior in every other regard, including short and mid range accuracy, and benefits from generally higher Axis accuracy veterancy bonuses to an extent that makes the initial .006 accuracy drop at max range compared to the bazooka meaningless.

Even the 2 second longer reload is mostly meaningless. A panzershreck, assuming it hits every time, will do more damage in a minute of continuous firing than a bazooka will*, and unlike the bazooka, is more likely to actually hit and penetrate every time.

*quick calculation 859.701492 vs 752.941177 (60/(reload+aimtime)*damage)

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 07:08 AMachpawel

A nice piece of work Still one key element seems to be missing. 4 man squad can shoot one volley and usually have to retreat or risk sort of totally. On a 6 man squads you can stay under fire longer. Alsi remember elite infantry have different bazooka and most importantly you can decide how many bazookas you have on which squads. It's a huge advantage. With ost you must use panzergrens and always with two. That's why they need a snare.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 04:04 AMMazianni

Last I checked, Stormtroopers recieved 40% at vet 2 as well.

The early 20% accuracy bonus to the single unit - REs - does not cancel the better accuracy bonuses overall, and the early Stormtrooper and Panzerfusilier 40% accuracy bonuses at vet 2 are just icing on the cake.

But this is wandering away from the main point, as for the most part Panzershreck weapon accuracy remains higher than Bazookas,(again, even and especially when without any vet whatsoever) and cannot in good faith be argued to be a unique drawback of the weapon when the two are compared. It's not like you're going to have much trouble vetting up with the shreks on anyway.

Further edit: On the topic of timing, a Panzershreck, as thedarkarmadillo illustrated in his own post, will remain relevant the entire game, whereas bazooka and PIAT effectiveness fall off hard in the late game.

Note I am not calling for any balance changes or nerfs with specific regard to this, but to treat the Panzershreck as in any way inferior or handicapped when compared to its allied equivalents is ludicrous. It is the best handheld AT available to any faction, hands down.

Illustrating this is the only reason I even posted in this thread.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 03:59 AMthedarkarmadillo

That would be in part offset by the Shrek being guaranteed to pen all stock allied units except brit hammer and anvil though wouldn't it? The zook might hit more but it doesn't necessarily do more.
Like if a volley of Shreks fire, 1 hits and the other misses that's 120 damage, if 2zooks shoot both hit, but only 1 pens that's about the same damage isn't it? Seems reasonable. Both having the same chance to miss but one always penning seems unreasonable if you ask me.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 03:59 AMthedarkarmadillo

That would be in part offset by the Shrek being guaranteed to pen all stock allied units except brit hammer and anvil though wouldn't it? The zook might hit more but it doesn't necessarily do more.
Like if a volley of Shreks fire, 1 hits and the other misses that's 120 damage, if 2zooks shoot both hit, but only 1 pens that's about the same damage isn't it? Seems reasonable. Both having the same chance to miss but one always penning seems unreasonable if you ask me.

Jump back to quoted post24 Jul 2019, 17:17 PMinsaneHoshi

And Bazookas coming on 200 MP squads vs 300 mp squads for Shreks may also seem unreasonable as well, perhaps the performance of Shreks should be better because the units that they are on have less men and are more expensive?