USF Rifle Company Rework

Literally all this commander needs is a price decrease (since I doubt the debuff is going away) for Fire Up and Flares (should be equivalent to PanzerFusilier Flares at 35 munitions). Just like that it becomes useable.

If we combined flares and fire up into one package since theyre both cp2 anyway, rifleman field defenses is the ONLY thing I would add, since it perfectly fits the theme of the commander and gives it something meaningful early game.

IMO flares shoulnt be cheaper, like the pfussies ones because they could be used against MG42 and thats countering the best MG for 35 muni. I know, 45 is way expensive too, the ability is very useful but there has to be a way to stop its spammability, since USF mortars are good as OST ones but the latter cant have flare support in any way. Also a standard OST relies on positioning and ambush and that is hard countered by non risky map exploration such as flares.

If riflemen were able to use once the flare until they retreat, at a much lower cost (10 mun or free) would be ideal for both sides.


IMO E8 should stay in the rifle commander, its a good enough tank that can give a needed edge against bullying Pz4s. Either that or swap E8 with M10s with a reduced cost. The combined force of mortars+rifles with good tools and mobility+fast medium TD sounds interesting against OKW aggresiveness and to deal with some aggressive openings from OST.

I would like to see some combined tactics for riflemen too. I.e. giving 2 new abilities: Fire at will (slows the enemy infantry movement and reduce damage taken and done) and assault (gives extra movement speed and moving acc). With this two similar riflemen can perform very effectively an assault maneuver to any other infantry/MG. It will force the enemy to reposition at least.

These all sound great. The commander does really badly need a rework and this would be a huge improvement.

Yeah so let's put it on a unit that has snares, an extra man from the get-go, better RA and better vet, and a frag grenade.

That would also make it so your direct fire capabilities with infantry are kind of gimped. All around a bad solution IMO.

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The suggestion is put in unit that is less spam-able and where it becomes a choice and not a no brainer upgrade.

In addition the upgrade would make upgunned riflemen better long range but vulnerable to CQC so ithe upgrade would better design.

In addition it would remove silly things like:
Double grenades from fighting position
suppressing infantry trying to close in

The suggestion is put in unit that is less spam-able and where it becomes a choice and not a no brainer upgrade.

In addition the upgrade would make upgunned riflemen better long range but vulnerable to CQC so ithe upgrade would better design.

In addition it would remove silly things like:
Double grenades from fighting position
suppressing infantry trying to close in

I'd never spam rear echelons even for the upgrade. Their carbines are pretty terrible compared to just about any other weapon in the game, they're a 4 man squad with no good RA modifiers (which vet helps with but still), and they don't have snares. If I wanted to spam grenades everywhere I'd much rather be doing it from riflemen, who are tougher, have better weapons, and have snares and frags and better vet, and are only marginally more to reinforce.

I'd never spam rear echelons even for the upgrade. Their carbines are pretty terrible compared to just about any other weapon in the game, they're a 4 man squad with no good RA modifiers (which vet helps with but still), and they don't have snares. If I wanted to spam grenades everywhere I'd much rather be doing it from riflemen, who are tougher, have better weapons, and have snares and frags and better vet, and are only marginally more to reinforce.

their weapon are superior to CE mosin at all ranges and pioneer above 14 range even without the vet 1 accuracy buff.

The unit is inline with its cost.

their weapon are superior to CE mosin at all ranges and pioneer above 14 range even without the vet 1 accuracy buff.

The unit is inline with its cost.

Ok, even if their weapons aren't quite as bad as I thought, they still lose to all other squads they'll ever fight in most situations and can't snare and are pretty squishy. They're not really fit to be a main component of an army, and the riflenade upgrade is good in spite of their deficiency, not because they're actually super good or anything. Give the upgrade to riflemen and IMO it'd actually be even stronger. The 80 extra initial manpower cost isn't really relevant because you'll already have plenty of rifles by the time you get enough muni for the upgrade, and then if you throw BARs on the squads on top of that, you have a squad that has decent direct fire and also denies cover and forces movement kind of like old flamer penals or rifles (not quite as bad but still) and can also snare, throw grenades, and has good RA and better base weaponry. Is that really something you'd rather see than the cooks with carbines having it?

Ok, even if their weapons aren't quite as bad as I thought, they still lose to all other squads they'll ever fight in most situations and can't snare and are pretty squishy.

One versus one, yes.

But you can build a ton of these things really fast. You'll be swimming in map control, and you can overwhelm enemy squads with sheer numbers. Two RETs beat a Volksgrenadier squad, three beat a Sturmpioneer. You've got so many squads that flanking MGs is a piece of cake, and you'll get your officer in short order to do the damage heavy lifting.

If your opponent concentrates their forces, the RETs spread out and cap everything else.

Then you hit CP3 and they all get M1919s. The sheer power spike can push your opponent off the map.

Assgrens counter it hard, but against OKW RET spam can be really strong.

Well when 90% of the commanders that get reworked become batshit OP, might as well make another op one.

In all threads you just dont like Rifle company lul

..Is that really something you'd rather see than the cooks with carbines having it?

Yes because:
RE in fighting position fire 2 grenades
RE can suppress
RE can be spammed

If Rifle grenade bar is problem it could be simply be changed to take all weapon slots.

In all threads you just dont like Rifle company lul

k lul

Well when 90% of the commanders that get reworked become batshit OP, might as well make another op one.

Commanders are only OP when you compare them to each other and how they interact within each faction.

Let’s just say that all commanders are very, very strong and give the player a huge advantage by using them. Well if they are ALL OP then it’s not really a problem because then the only UP option is to not pick a commander at all.

I agree with your sentiment. Newer commanders do offer a lot more than the older ones, which has caused “power creep” over time.

Put simply, there is a problem: not all commanders are equal.

Solution 1: nerf strong commanders down to to the weakest commander’s level.

Solution 2: buff weak commanders up to the stronger commanders level.

Option 3: do neither, and accept that some commanders are better than others.

Awesome option 4: have AE host a tournament where commander vetos are allowed so that OP commanders get kicked out and less OP commanders get thrown into the fray at a high stakes, high skill tournament where top level players can show off strategies for using non meta commanders. Then collect data on commander veto and commander choice ratios to determine which commanders need a review. If it gets vetoed, it’s OP. If it never gets picked even when other stuff gets vetoed, then it’s UP.

Commanders are only OP when you compare them to each other and how they interact within each faction.

Let’s just say that all commanders are very, very strong and give the player a huge advantage by using them. Well if they are ALL OP then it’s not really a problem because then the only UP option is to not pick a commander at all.

I agree with your sentiment. Newer commanders do offer a lot more than the older ones, which has caused “power creep” over time.

Put simply, there is a problem: not all commanders are equal.

Solution 1: nerf strong commanders down to to the weakest commander’s level.

Solution 2: buff weak commanders up to the stronger commanders level.

Option 3: do neither, and accept that some commanders are better than others.

Awesome option 4: have AE host a tournament where commander vetos are allowed so that OP commanders get kicked out and less OP commanders get thrown into the fray at a high stakes, high skill tournament where top level players can show off strategies for using non meta commanders. Then collect data on commander veto and commander choice ratios to determine which commanders need a review. If it gets vetoed, it’s OP. If it never gets picked even when other stuff gets vetoed, then it’s UP.

Might be interesting if there was a tourney where the players got to pick the enemies commander (or 3 commander options) so the weaker or at least non meta commanders can see some light and be given direction.

...
Let’s just say that all commanders are very, very strong and give the player a huge advantage by using them. Well if they are ALL OP then it’s not really a problem because then the only UP option is to not pick a commander at all.
....

If commander are very strong one might end up having to choose a commander very early. That was the complain about the Soviet factions previous design.

I don't know why you all want to remove WP barrage which is the best ability in the commander vs defensive players.

Fire Up need simply to be replaced with the new version added for the new commander and flare prices decrease to 35.

Ultimately the Ez8 could get a buff to make the commander more incentive to be use. Revert the speed/acceleration nerf it get some years ago would be a good start.

If commander are very strong one might end up having to choose a commander very early. That was the complain about the Soviet factions previous design.

Well, that's one way to completely spin an argument.

Complaint about soviet design was that doctrines were NOT strong, but MANDATORY, because core army was not up to the task at all, infantry couldn't do anything else then stall for doctrinal upgrades/doctrinal infantries support and the only 2 vehicles that weren't utter shit were T70 and SU-85, so IS-2 and 34/85 have seen a wide use.

Tech design of picking one tier over another TWICE was also shitty design that limited stock options severely and forced doctrinal options regardless of their strength.

In short:
Soviet play was completely one dimensional with zero alternatives and it relied on doctrines to be competitive in any way not because doctrines were strong, but because core army was steamy pile of limited shit.

That's not the problem for any other faction.

If the core army is relevant, commanders will always be an option instead of early requierment, regardless of their strength(if they are within balanced state). Not all commanders have early game options either and still remain strong.

With the many commander reworks that have happened, it seems like USF's Rifle Company has gotten gradually reduced in strength. This Company used to be way to strong and definitely OP, but now has been nerfed into obscurity. Additionally, it no longer fits its own theme. The upgrades it gives to Riflemen are marginal and are overshadowed by other, better Commanders. What follows is my proposal for a rework of the commander thats goal is to make Rifle Company relevant again, work thematically and also not become OP. All Commanders should be good, but none should be too good.

(0) CP - Rifleman Field Defenses.

Just like in the other Commanders. It fits thematically
with a Rifle Company that supports Rifleman play. Enough said.

(0) CP - M4A3(E8) "Easy Eight" Sherman Tank.

No changes. The Easy Eight is really the only reason to go for Rifle Company right now and it doesn't require any changes.

(0) CP - Rear Echelon Troops M2 Flamethrower Upgrade

No Changes. Still a staple of the commander and is not too strong. Plus it is one of only two ways that USF can get a flamethrower.

(2) CP - Veteran Sergeant Upgrade.

New Ability that adds a Veteran Sergeant to a Riflemen Squad.

Cost 60 Munitions. Takes up one weapon slot.

Adds the Veteran Sergeant. Armed with an M1 Carbine with the stats of the Paratrooper M1 Carbine, he adds a small amount of firepower to the squad with his extra Carbine, but his strength lies in adding to the survivability to the squad with his extra model of health and the passive buffs he gives to the squad. The Sergeant grants a 5% reduction in received accuracy to the squad and a 10% buff to the rate the squad gains veterancy. He also grants the squad the Fire Up ability and the ability to launch flares. (This way you combine the previous two abilities into one commander spot, but then locks these two abilities behind an upgrade.) At Vet 3 the Veteran Sergeant allows the squad to heal while out of combat, just as Rangers and Paratroopers do.

The Sergeant himself should use a model that makes it easy to identify a squad that has the upgrade, just like how the 6th man in an Assault Grenadier uses the model of a PanzerGrenadier. I suggest that the model used should be a regular Rifleman model, but with the radio backpack of the Pathfinders added to him. I am not sure if this can be done, but I think it would be a good choice if it can be. If that cannot be done, then the model of the Lieutenant could be used, as it has no identifying insignia or drastic uniform differences that would identify him as not belonging to a regular infantry unit. (Pathfinders have Paratrooper uniforms, Rangers have Ranger insignia painted on their helmets, etc.) The unit icon should add Sergeant Chevrons above the crossed rifles. (Look up current US Marine Corps Sergeant Chevrons for a good idea of what this would look like.)

(6) CP - White Phosphorous Smoke Barrage

No changes.

Some might say that this would be too strong to have 6 man Riflemen, who are already pretty good, but by making this ability take up a weapon slot, you prevent a 6 man squad having double BARs. In fact, a double BAR squad will still have better firepower than a single BAR Veteran Sergeant
upgraded squad for the same cost in munitions. This allows for choices to be made in your upgrading decisions, where the Veteran Sergeant gives you better survivability, and the double BARs gives you better firepower. Thematically this works by reducing the number of BARs in each squad, which means more rifles per squad, hence Rifle Company (Not BAR Company Lol). It also allows the reuse of discarded voice lines from the old Veteran Riflemen ability where the announcer says something like "Veteran know-how can now better train our Riflemen." Honestly I think it's a good fit for the Commander that makes it more appealing to play, but doesn't suddenly make the commander too strong or game breaking.

Let me know what you think!

GL, HF.

I completely love it. I agree that it would put the accent more on riflemen.
Right now, I have no idea why it's called like that.

One versus one, yes.

But you can build a ton of these things really fast. You'll be swimming in map control, and you can overwhelm enemy squads with sheer numbers. Two RETs beat a Volksgrenadier squad, three beat a Sturmpioneer. You've got so many squads that flanking MGs is a piece of cake, and you'll get your officer in short order to do the damage heavy lifting.

If your opponent concentrates their forces, the RETs spread out and cap everything else.

Then you hit CP3 and they all get M1919s. The sheer power spike can push your opponent off the map.

Assgrens counter it hard, but against OKW RET spam can be really strong.

Yeah I thought the supposed problem was the grenades though?

Now you're just complaining about echelons. They're 50 mp less than volks to make and 40 less than grens, and USF starts with a little more manpower than both axis factions. You can't make that many that fast, not enough to have two for every volk and like 3 for every sturm. You also won't have any snares or engine damaging mines, and have spent all your muni on like 6 1919s anyway so you'll get raped by a luchs or flamer halftrack. Not a viable strategy.

What if, instead of 6-man rifles, you could get a 6-man LT or Captain? They're already special riflemen limited to 1 each, so they could gain abilities that would be too strong on mainline units.

Like this idea: Show Spoiler
So, replace rifleman flares with "Forward Observers". 3CP upgrade for LT/Captain, but only 1 at a time. Adds a (cheaper) flare ability, a Pathfinder, and an artillery ability (I&R Pathfinders, Major? Not sure). Takes up a weapon slot.

Just do that, buff Fire Up (lower cost or no exhaustion), and the commander is good, I think.