New Commander Update Patch June 14th

For the record:
- Tigers were changed because all heavy tanks are supposed to get the same treatment next big balance patch.
- Panzergrenadiers do not have smoke grenades by default. They get them from the "Breakthrough Equipment" ability in the Strategic Reserves commander.

Noted. PGs smoke is still buffed by veterancy tho. I have no objection to them paying for it. And if they're really going to drop all heavies to 0cp (?) reducing the price of light and medium armor would be a good idea. The dominance of heavies would only be reinforced otherwise.

- Why are 3 DP-28s excessive and expensive? They're cheaper than 2x M1919s for Paratroopers (120MU) while giving roughly the same DPS. DP-28s are pretty bad LMGs, that's why they get 3.

I don't like halving the SVTs in the squad for a bad mg. I also think 120 for the M1919s is a bit excessive considering paras are armed with carbines (IIRC still cheaper than fetching two from the base at 140!). Wonder how effective Guard airborne'd be with PPSH and DP-28s. Might be a way to distinguish them from Shock troopers (other than abilities) and make their performance somewhat similar to US paras, though obviously more potent at short range (but paras have Thompsons for that).

Seeing as I'm new to these debates, a link to where I can find current stats would be nice. Though I don't mind being corrected either.

More feedback:

OKW:

• Happy with what's been done with the Panzerfusiliers. Much more useful than they were before with the different upgrade paths. There's now a reason to use them alongside Volksgrenadiers. EDIT: mind you, it is a little strange that they're unevenly sized. Perhaps keep them at 5 for the G43 upgrade and reduce the price.
  
• Changes to the Kubelwagen and le.IG 18 are fine.
  
• A bit scary now it's technically possible to field a command Tiger alongside a Konigstiger on top of Panthers. We'll see how this travels.
  

When is next big patch?
So heavy tanks are now 0 cp with T4?
I guess that works to bring them out more often.
Except i think Wehr do not have the right pen counter if so.

Although i dont like the idea of people skipping tiers and getting out heavies fast, its okay as long as they are limited to one.

But i think they should have at least delayed the tiger changes so they can make the heavy tank changes to all factions at the same time instead of just ostheer

There are still some issues with OKW.

Veterancy is still an issue experienced amongst most of OKW units.



Price and Performance of units needs certain revaluation.

I will create a kind of list of units regarding these issues.

____

List of Units I believe experience Vet issues:

1./ Sturmpio, if you compare to when Volks vet, you can how drastically long it takes for them to ridiculously acquire vet. Maybe even move the stun nade earlier to vet 1 because it currently does not work.

2./ Raketenwerfer, apparently it vets slow in OKW hands but in others, it vets faster. Wierd right?

3./ King Tiger. It comes in and its requirements are ridiculous. Never have had the chance to even acquire anything higher than vet 2. Because its vet scaling has not been considered! That why its the least favourite choice as their Heavy Tank! Revamp/Improvements!

4./ Obersoldaten. They come apparently late all the time. Their vet scaling also needs maybe some looking into!

5./ MG34, since its performance is worse than most of other MGs, I feel it is one of the hardest to acquire vet.

6./ Although this not that important just to spill this out for the sake of diversity. Luchs "suppression ability" is not functioning properly. Even then, it ridilously requires you to obtain Vet 5 in order to make use of the ability. I suggest moving it earlier to at least Vet 3 would be balanced.


List of Units I believe needs revamp, improvements, nerfs and buffs that should have been included in the patch I believe.

1./ Sturmpio AT package costing 70 ammo. Everyone is aware of the fact that this the most underpowered and lackluster AT package in game. It requires a improvements/revamp/buff.
I created a forum based on this: https://www.coh2.org/topic/91515/at-raktenwerfer-okw-revamp

2./ Raketenwerfer plays a role as an assassin which is an issue which many brought up. It should fulfill a better role as an AT support unit. Its current survivability is the worst due to the fact its the easiest to lose, meaning easy to eradicate OKW AT capabilities when its their only proper option. I suggest revamp, nerfs and buffs.

3./ Flak Half Track. Everything seems fine but its current accuracy seems to be its major problem. It hardly does any proper damage and kills only until it reaches Vet 2. I suggested fixing its aim only since that is quite a major problem. The aim should be consistent for its damage. Aim buff/improvement. Take away Vet aim improvements and just apply it by default to make it consistent.

4./ Puma, do not know why the price is justified in that sense when the new commander for Brits has a Wolverine "Achilles" Tank costing similar manpower and for 80 fuel. Even then Puma performs similarly to the way AEC does and I do not see why it should be 10 fuel difference. I think it should be 60 fuel. Price nerf

5./ Walking Stuka, its timing is unjustified and so is its price. Move it last HQ and make it as cheap as any other. Its current performance is inconsistent and worse to that of both Katusha and Panzerwerfer. The way it currently functions is rather poor its barrage system since it does not cover an area but a single straight line. I suggest changing it. Instead of shooting 1,1 and 1. Why not shoot 2,2 and 2. To cover more area to suit better its purpose. You cant achieve anything from covering one straight line! I suggest Revamp/nerf/improvement.

Seeing as I'm new to these debates, a link to where I can find current stats would be nice. Though I don't mind being corrected either.

You can find individual weapon stats here:
https://coh2db.com/stats/

Most weapons are still up to date, except for a few that have been changed in the last year (you can find these in the changelogs on the official forums).

In case you guys needed any more evidence as to why the 12 minute 0CP tiger is not OK...



16 minute base rush.

And to people saying it's not a problem because at that point the game is over already, you are the reason that people quit games after 5 minutes because they lost a squad.

I'd prefer to encourage people to play on despite losing both fuels in hope of a comeback, something that isn't that rare, but will be when they can just bum rush your base with 3 tigers just because you lost both fuel points for 4 minutes.

1)
What allied team did to prevent it?
2)
Where is a difference between early tiger base rush or early PIV/brummbar base rush if opponent has only 1 or 2 ATGs and will lose this engangement anyway?

You can find individual weapon stats here:
https://coh2db.com/stats/

Most weapons are still up to date, except for a few that have been changed in the last year (you can find these in the changelogs on the official forums).

Thank you, this will help. M1A1 carbines are surprisingly potent on paras, but as expected not as potent as PPShs (on Shock). Guess there's something to my hypothesis after all. Anything similar for armor values, AT penetration etc? I've been to that site but never realized it had stats too.

Thank you, this will help. M1A1 carbines are surprisingly potent on paras, but as expected not as potent as PPShs (on Shock). Guess there's something to my hypothesis after all. Anything similar for armor values, AT penetration etc? I've been to that site but never realized it had stats too.

When you select a unit, it will not only display all weapons available to them and their stats, but their armor(if not shown, its the default value of 1), target size and health(except for infantry, all of which, except for snipers, have 80 health), for vehicles it also shows max speed, acceleration and rotation rate.

All weapons have penetration at near, mid and far ranges in their stat list in the "Basic" section.

Man I wonder who the fuck in balance team thought Ostwind is "balanced"?
90 fuel T3 vehicle that wrecks light AT vehicles in direct combat, destroys planes and kills retreating squads in couple of seconds on top of having better AI performance than Brummbar.
JLI debacle clearly taught those people nothing, game is pretty much unplayble thanks to that thing alone, schecks/15 minute tigers and assgren blobs beating shocks/rangers are like cherry on top of this shitshow

Man I wonder who the fuck in balance team thought Ostwind is "balanced"?
90 fuel T3 vehicle that wrecks light AT vehicles in direct combat, destroys planes and kills retreating squads in couple of seconds on top of having better AI performance

Sounds an awful lot like the Centaur, except it costs only 10 fuel more.

And Agrens beating Shocks and Rangers? Now you're literally just making stuff up.

Man I wonder who the fuck in balance team thought Ostwind is "balanced"?
90 fuel T3 vehicle that wrecks light AT vehicles in direct combat, destroys planes and kills retreating squads in couple of seconds on top of having better AI performance than Brummbar.
JLI debacle clearly taught those people nothing, game is pretty much unplayble thanks to that thing alone, schecks/15 minute tigers and assgren blobs beating shocks/rangers are like cherry on top of this shitshow

Centaur did the same for years and does now. Why Ostwind cannot do the same?

Centaur did the same for years and does now.

I think you spelled t70 wrong.

When you select a unit, it will not only display all weapons available to them and their stats, but their armor(if not shown, its the default value of 1), target size and health(except for infantry, all of which, except for snipers, have 80 health), for vehicles it also shows max speed, acceleration and rotation rate.

All weapons have penetration at near, mid and far ranges in their stat list in the "Basic" section.

Ah I see, I didn't click around enough. I'll keep this on-hand.

Just played a quick match with USF:

• Rear Echelons sure are dangerous now. 60MU feels pretty cheap for how far they can lob those grenades, and the damage they do, even with the minimum range. Very useful!
  
• Never been a fan of dozer blade upgrades and this hasn't changed my mind. Fuel is better spent elsewhere. The WP almost makes it worthwhile but you're still pouring 130 fuel into a regular Sherman; better spent on the Calliope. RE squads can make up for it!
  
• Rangers feel pretty good, more well-rounded. Calliope seems nice, strikes more like the Katyusha. I'll have to use it more.
  

When is next big patch?
So heavy tanks are now 0 cp with T4?
I guess that works to bring them out more often.
Except i think Wehr do not have the right pen counter if so.

Ever heard of panther?

after patch....

new USF commander - good, balanced, fix the bug(echelon dont shoot grenade in the fighting position)

new UKF commander - boring and have no reason to play this commander

new SOV commander - SVT conscript need nerf(4 SVT-> 3), airborne rally point is too cheap, fix T70 bug

new Ost commander - tiger ace need nerf(ex. cant move while he is using spearhead and require 14 CP), fix 251 bug plz

new OKW commaner - fine

new UKF commander - boring and have no reason to play this commander

I find Lend Lease Assault to be one of the best UKF commanders because it fills so many holes in their lineup. Aggressive infantry. A T0 mobile mortar to fight garrisons or HMG 42s. A light AI vehicle. A cost effective medium AT vehicle to counter medium tanks without having to get a very expensive Firefly.

Crew Repairs comes in handy in the late game, although I wouldn't mind seeing it replaced with something with a bit more punch. Sure, the abilities aren't as shiny or exciting as Tiger Aces or big offmaps but they are very effective, and ultimately I do think the commander is already very good and useful.

after patch....

new USF commander - good, balanced, fix the bug(echelon dont shoot grenade in the fighting position)

new UKF commander - boring and have no reason to play this commander

new SOV commander - SVT conscript need nerf(4 SVT-> 3), airborne rally point is too cheap, fix T70 bug

new Ost commander - tiger ace need nerf(ex. cant move while he is using spearhead and require 14 CP), fix 251 bug plz

new OKW commaner - fine

First off, the USF Commander is only used for the RE Rifle Grenade spam like it was already predicated, I have literally not even seen the Sherman Bulldozers being used, or the Calliope for that matter.

2nd off, where exactly was your suggestion for the British Commanders? The topic about the UKF suggestions were the least replied to or viewed and I don't remember your suggestion or comments so shitting on the idea is solely your own opinion and no one else's.

And lastly, there is no bug for the 251, it's a feature that just needs balancing, and the OKW Commander, much like the USF one, is only currently being used to spam Panzerfusiliers armed with double shrecks and nothing else, the Tiger while not useless I see a lot of people just suicide charging and leaving to die so they can get a KT instead since it's a weird Commander-but-not-exactly type of unit and you're asking yourself why not just get a KT or have it reworked to be a proper Commander unit or replaced by a Tiger Ace or a Command Panther or anything else really.

First off, the USF Commander is only used for the RE Rifle Grenade spam like it was already predicated, I have literally not even seen the Sherman Bulldozers being used, or the Calliope for that matter.

Smoke charge is nice too, the commander is overall more useful vs Ostheer than OKW imo

First off, the USF Commander is only used for the RE Rifle Grenade spam like it was already predicated, I have literally not even seen the Sherman Bulldozers being used, or the Calliope for that matter.

2nd off, where exactly was your suggestion for the British Commanders? The topic about the UKF suggestions were the least replied to or viewed and I don't remember your suggestion or comments so shitting on the idea is solely your own opinion and no one else's.

And lastly, there is no bug for the 251, it's a feature that just needs balancing, and the OKW Commander, much like the USF one, is only currently being used to spam Panzerfusiliers armed with double shrecks and nothing else, the Tiger while not useless I see a lot of people just suicide charging and leaving to die so they can get a KT instead since it's a weird Commander-but-not-exactly type of unit and you're asking yourself why not just get a KT or have it reworked to be a proper Commander unit or replaced by a Tiger Ace or a Command Panther or anything else really.

251 half-track can be retreat point now

that is bug

smoke+sprint is OP and buldozer+ white phosphorus destroy all AT guns

only used for the RE Rifle Grenade spam??

What is your rank?

I find Lend Lease Assault to be one of the best UKF commanders because it fills so many holes in their lineup. Aggressive infantry. A T0 mobile mortar to fight garrisons or HMG 42s. A light AI vehicle. A cost effective medium AT vehicle to counter medium tanks without having to get a very expensive Firefly.

Crew Repairs comes in handy in the late game, although I wouldn't mind seeing it replaced with something with a bit more punch. Sure, the abilities aren't as shiny or exciting as Tiger Aces or big offmaps but they are very effective, and ultimately I do think the commander is already very good and useful.

4 tommy spamming is more strong ^^