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AT / Raktenwerfer OKW revamp

10 Jun 2019, 03:32 AM
#41
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

snip

I really admire you will to write wall of text, but i can hardly read if you abuse underline. I cant identify clearly what are your intentions and even though you analize the game quite objectively i cant ignore the fact you repeat over and over yourself, like there is nothing you read from others to inspire new ideas or change your planning course. Its very hard to follow such attitude and even harder to give some feedback. Consider in shortening your post as an improvement, to help others reach out your ideas faster.
I wont deny i agree with your optimistic and positive point of view. At least we share that.

Raks could use a revamp but its not as important as other topics, to say the least, heavy tech locking, mainline inf balance (its sort of messy yet) and some midgame QoL improvements.
10 Jun 2019, 12:03 PM
#43
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

If it should remain 1 Pzshrek than I suggest Volksgrenadiers to get it instead but locks their STG upgrade if the AT upgrade is acquired. Because factions such as USF and UKF can have a unit Royale Engineers with 2 AT plus snare and Riflemen with 2 AT with snare. That is my point.


I take it you don't remember the roving anti-everything Volksblobs of Doom.

The STG upgrade was created specifically to remove it from the game completely.

PGren Panzershrecks can only be purchased in pairs for a similar reason.
10 Jun 2019, 12:18 PM
#44
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783


I really admire you will to write wall of text, but i can hardly read if you abuse underline. I cant identify clearly what are your intentions and even though you analize the game quite objectively i cant ignore the fact you repeat over and over yourself, like there is nothing you read from others to inspire new ideas or change your planning course. Its very hard to follow such attitude and even harder to give some feedback. Consider in shortening your post as an improvement, to help others reach out your ideas faster.
I wont deny i agree with your optimistic and positive point of view. At least we share that.

Raks could use a revamp but its not as important as other topics, to say the least, heavy tech locking, mainline inf balance (its sort of messy yet) and some midgame QoL improvements.


Thank you Distrofio for your feedback. I appreciate your honesty and for your opinion.

I do apologise for making these statements long and to an extent difficult to follow. I will try to do better on making it shorter in order to receive feedback.

It is usually a habit of mine to make things long just to make all the things clear or to say all what needs to be said to avoid any missing pieces and misinterpretation. It may have taken away that synergy or overall understanding due to the length of the text.

I do look to other peoples comments but it does not necessarily mean I ignore or do not respond to them. I just to do it indirectly as some share similar ideas which is definitely hard to respond to each and individually. Yes, their opinion is just as valuable as any other. I do not ignore as some opinons I do admire than others. One with Optmisitic , positive, realistic, sensible ideas!



To shorten the text of what I said (the long one), in a minimalist sense.

OKW lacks viable AT unit roles. Both Raketenwerfer and Sturmpio's Anti Tank (AT) role is lackluster or with no proper vitality. They are not potent enough due to its limited capabilities. I was arguing that the Puma is the only real proper AT they have in stock (early AT supportive unit) as it has vitality and that it is potent enough. Core units such as AT gun and AT infantry unit should not be undermined, is what I tried to state.

10 Jun 2019, 12:24 PM
#46
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 12:03 PMLago


I take it you don't remember the roving anti-everything Volksblobs of Doom.

The STG upgrade was created specifically to remove it from the game completely.

PGren Panzershrecks can only be purchased in pairs for a similar reason.



Yes, that was a pretty bad idea that I suggested there with Volks having the Pzshrek.

But the reason why I said that is because Sturmpio's AT role is currently lackluster. That is why I said that.

It would be actually more preferable to give them 2 Panzerbursche instead for 60 or 70 ammo. To make it diverse and potent enough to suit better their AT role which they fail to attain. To make them potent enough which they currently are not good enough.
15 Jun 2019, 21:34 PM
#47
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Switch the AT package currently between the Sturmpio and Panzerfusiliers!

Sturmpio AT package is underwhelming and should be fixed. They should get 2 Pzshreks instead. Or for 70 ammo, they should shoot over a period of 5-6 seconds to compensate instead of 9 seconds! To match a proficient DPS like the others.

I mean, come on. Who needs cold immunity anyway. It is quite outdated and it should be updated instead!!

It needs to as any other factions AT infantry unit does anything between 160-240 damage within a 9 second period. Especially allies in addition have snares that comes with AT hand held weapons making them potentially higher. Currently Sturmpio does 120 damage which does not meet the requirements for being a proficient enough AT unit. The Package needs changes and improvements!
15 Jun 2019, 22:57 PM
#48
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571



I too like the idea of some crews actually fighting. I remember the old mg34 had a volks crew and tbh it was cool and unique and made up for the lack luster performance. I'd like to see some more experimentation like that


I thought that for a while, the MG-34 HMG itself was so shitty that those volks models out damage the gun itself xD
16 Jun 2019, 01:48 AM
#49
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

16 Jun 2019, 07:26 AM
#50
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

the accuracy is the problem not the range

Its same as ZiS.
Projectile was always an issue.
16 Jun 2019, 14:17 PM
#51
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 07:26 AMKatitof

Its same as ZiS.
Projectile was always an issue.


they should fix it, maybe with the OKW HEAT animation. i m sure nobody would mind it
16 Jun 2019, 17:37 PM
#52
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 378

Raketenwerfer needs to be changed as we all know. It play a better supportive role rather a sneaky backstabber, meaning has to get closer due to its range and sneak cuz of camo.

Which we all know is a disturbing feature and it should be changed.

Remove Camo and Retreat completely and make the range the same as any other. Rak should be 5 man and should be able to move faster as passive ability than any other AT gun. Since it is vulnerable, that is why it should be 5 man, to give a little edge. No abilities. Just has the passive to move faster. Although it is the most vulernable AT gun as it is currently but it should be not made too weak its survivability as it currently is. That is why 5 man is enough.
[/u]
Currently on both sides, allies and axis it is frustrating. Please change it.
___

OKW has no proper mobile infantryAT unit. Sturmpio with 1 Pzshrek is lackluster for 70 ammo which is a lot. It is not worth it and if anything it should be improved. They should be able to get 2 Pzshrek and each costing 60 ammo. Why should it be 70 ammo. It is a lot just for one only that proves with little effect.

Every faction has proper AT mobile infantry unit and OKW with the worst. What is the definition of proper mobile infantry AT unit is the following. Has high Vehicle Damage per second and has has snares in addition. Sturmpio with one Pzshrek has the lowest Vehicle overall damage and no snares.

It would make more sense if they had 2 instead. 1 Makes no sense and it is useless.

If it should remain 1 Pzshrek than I suggest Volksgrenadiers to get it instead but locks their STG upgrade if the AT upgrade is acquired. Because factions such as USF and UKF can have a unit Royale Engineers with 2 AT plus snare and Riflemen with 2 AT with snare. That is my point.
___

To sum this up. Rak should be locked in the beginning and becomes only available after 1 base built.

Volks can use Pzfaust in the beginning like Wehr does. So now not only the MG is locked as it currently is and now Rak.



Fuck no.



16 Jun 2019, 21:44 PM
#53
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Buff range a bit (not as much as other at guns though), remove retreat, mayyybe make it 5 men would be a good solution IMO. That way it can't go on commando raids and assassinate katyushas and stuff anymore, and can't just take potshots way up front and retreat with little to no risk at all since they're 4 men retreating at full or near full health. That's IMO the most annoying thing about playing against it, and buffing range and maybe 5th man would make it more survivable, both to offset the loss of retreat and to make it a bit less frustrating to use.
16 Jun 2019, 22:53 PM
#54
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 469

Don´t remove raketen stealth pelase :(
How else am i gonna snipe Katyshas?
17 Jun 2019, 13:26 PM
#55
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Buff range a bit (not as much as other at guns though), remove retreat, mayyybe make it 5 men would be a good solution IMO. That way it can't go on commando raids and assassinate katyushas and stuff anymore, and can't just take potshots way up front and retreat with little to no risk at all since they're 4 men retreating at full or near full health. That's IMO the most annoying thing about playing against it, and buffing range and maybe 5th man would make it more survivable, both to offset the loss of retreat and to make it a bit less frustrating to use.


Yeah, it has to stop playing the role as an assassin.

It needs to change into a regular proper supportive AT weapon. For both in Axis and Allies favour.


17 Jun 2019, 19:16 PM
#56
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Don´t remove raketen stealth pelase :(
How else am i gonna snipe Katyshas?

Earn the kill instead of cheesing it?
18 Jun 2019, 03:10 AM
#57
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 378

use the pak 40 skin with slight modifications and call it pak 38 reduce pen, give first strike bonus , done


That's a new asset.
18 Jun 2019, 04:17 AM
#58
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Don´t remove raketen stealth pelase :(
How else am i gonna snipe Katyshas?

That's the problem though. It's such a low risk, high reward move. I think camo should stay, but their ability to retreat should be removed (like every other at gun in the game ever). If you get discovered by anything barring the entire 101st airborne with thompsons or like multiple tanks or something that 4 man squad with full health is definitely going to be able to safely retreat even if it's fairly far behind enemy lines. It's stupid and cheesy to play against, and if they lose retreat, sniping katyushas will actually take some skill and involve some risk at least now.
18 Jun 2019, 06:08 AM
#59
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1



This was already the case before. Old crews from OKW were basically Volks models instead of bad performing support crews.



And it was removed because it was inconsistent from faction to faction.

I’m all about weapon teams having better individual shooting skills as all soldiers of all armies would’ve been trained on their rifles before moving in to receive advanced training on crew served weapons.

However, this is a change that would completely wreck the balance of team weapons and their cost dynamic in the game.

Put it in COH3, but it’s too late in the game to fiddle with in CoH 2.
3 Jul 2019, 23:02 PM
#60
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

It is simply the worst AT gun available for 270 manpower in game.

Why?

Inconsistent, unreliable, sleep-walking and the most suicidial ideation programmed unit in game. Closest unit to goliath except it begs for death instead.

It prefers too much the role of dying than supporting.
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