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russian armor

OKW - Replace Sturmtiger in elite armor doctrine

7 Jun 2019, 08:09 AM
#21
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 97

If SturmTiger wasn't useless, it would look like this:

7 Jun 2019, 09:32 AM
#22
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2



Yes collision issues kinda suck, but you can mostly play around those. Which is why I said you gotta learn how to use it. Avoiding collision shots is something that can be done most of the time, but it takes the correct approach and right way to aim. I can usually get a Sturmtiger to vet 4-5 whenever I use one and it's usually a game changer. Don't expect to get massive hits wiping entire blobs at once (although it's kreygasm when you do get a hit like that) - simply be patient and keep wiping squads one by one. The enemy will be depleted of squads eventually and then you win. The vehicle stun effect on a hit (the AOE for this is really large) is also really good for taking down tanks with other units.

Some tips:
- Always make sure you drive in a straight line to the target. This way the ST will start aiming while slowing down, shaving off a second or two before firing;
- Always aim a bit behind the target. If the shot goes short, you'll still hit the target. If the shot goes far, it will collision with whatever you're aiming for and you'll still hit the target;
- Get used to what parts of a map or objects give trouble with collision and get used to avoiding them. Or crush objects whenever you get the chance;
- Since the ST can fire through trees, try to ambush people with it;
- Never fire up/down a big slope. Either avoid the hill or go to the area that is less sloped (for example, on Hill 400 avoid the south munitions point slope and always the much less sloped part to the north of it to advance and fight)


So on top of the huge asking price of manpower and fuel we also need to do mental gymnastics and dance around the battlefield to find the perfect spot to fire the damn thing? What happened to simply making the firing arc bigger, mirage said something about that and then it was left to that.
7 Jun 2019, 11:29 AM
#23
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

So on top of the huge asking price of manpower and fuel we also need to do mental gymnastics and dance around the battlefield to find the perfect spot to fire the damn thing? What happened to simply making the firing arc bigger, mirage said something about that and then it was left to that.


It's not ideal that it takes some effort but it isn't that odd either. If you get an Elefant or a Jagdtiger you also have to place/use it correctly with the proper support in place or the unit will not be effective. Sturmtiger isn't that different. If you use it often those workarounds become natural and it becomes quite easy to use effectively.

It's also not a huge price in manpower and fuel anymore, it's only a bit more expensive than an OKW Panzer IV now (570/165) while it has the potential to deal tons of damage and wipes. Now it's quite cheap for what it can do imo.


Nothing could "simply" be done to the firing arc, we spent a week trying to adjust it and nothing worked. Neither can anything be done to the aim time/animation. It uses a complex set of (unique) animations and mechanics that couldn't be tempered with with the limited mod/Relic tools and without animators/coders.
7 Jun 2019, 12:21 PM
#24
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2



It's not ideal that it takes some effort but it isn't that odd either. If you get an Elefant or a Jagdtiger you also have to place/use it correctly with the proper support in place or the unit will not be effective. Sturmtiger isn't that different. If you use it often those workarounds become natural and it becomes quite easy to use effectively.

It's also not a huge price in manpower and fuel anymore, it's only a bit more expensive than an OKW Panzer IV now (570/165) while it has the potential to deal tons of damage and wipes. Now it's quite cheap for what it can do imo.


Nothing could "simply" be done to the firing arc, we spent a week trying to adjust it and nothing worked. Neither can anything be done to the aim time/animation. It uses a complex set of (unique) animations and mechanics that couldn't be tempered with with the limited mod/Relic tools and without animators/coders.


Well at least we finally have the answer to that question, it might have been just me but from what I understood from miragefla's comment it just needed to have the projectile's arc heightened. I'm guessing that that also means making it into a longer ranged self-propelled gun is sadly also out of the question then.
7 Jun 2019, 12:44 PM
#25
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Yes, one of the problems was that there was no way to make the rocket fly any faster. We managed to give it a really high arc (the arc can be either low or very high, there is no in between), but it took 3-6 seconds for the rocket to reach its target which imo made it both useless and weird to replace the current arc as the primary/only firing mode (that hits in 1-2 seconds).

We thought of giving it a secondary firing mode with this high arc, so the player has a choice to use the flat arc for direct fire or use the high arc (with long travel time) for indirect fire. With the high arc it could fire over buildings, forests and when firing from elevation it didn't have the undershooting issue, etc. But we never found the time for it. We may be able to look into this after the New Commanders Patch is done.
7 Jun 2019, 13:00 PM
#26
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

my experience with sturmtiger as okw in my games is as follows:

- i move up the sturmtiger to the front
- can't land an effective shot at reasonable micro cost because enemy units casually move out of the way
- i get frustrated
7 Jun 2019, 13:38 PM
#27
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

My suggestion about the ST:

Move to another doctrine (overwatch?) the unit does not benefit form heat round and commander. The unit competes with KT that does benefit from those abilities.

Redesign the unit:
Allow unit to piece world object and ground so that shot become reliable.
Greatly reduce wipe potential.
Greatly increase durability.
Add lots of utility:
The smoke grenade replaced by explosive mines around vehicles vs infatry
Shell do less damage but completely ignore all cover bonus delivering constant damage maybe cap number of kills.
Shell now bypass some of brace damage reduction units can not be used to take 17p the same way Avre can take out 88.
Shell now deliver long lasting debuff to enemy units like:
vs vehicles injured driver,gunner,commander.
vs infatry "shell shock" reduces DPS
vs support weapon "shell shock" reduce reload/ ROF
vs emplacement "shell shock" reduce reload/ ROF


(as for the commander itself make 221 and 223 separate vehicles or at least move fuel cost to upgrade)
7 Jun 2019, 13:49 PM
#28
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Turn it into mobile b4
7 Jun 2019, 14:05 PM
#29
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Turn it into mobile b4


The B4 has been either overpowered or garbage in the entire length of the game's life span. It's impossible to balance. Let's not make another one.
7 Jun 2019, 14:15 PM
#30
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 184

I think just making the sturmtiger more like the AVRE would be fair enough
7 Jun 2019, 14:58 PM
#31
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 378

my experience with sturmtiger as okw in my games is as follows:

- i move up the sturmtiger to the front
- can't land an effective shot at reasonable micro cost because enemy units casually move out of the way
- i get frustrated


This is my experience, and hitting british emplacements and not knocking them out.
7 Jun 2019, 15:22 PM
#32
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

How about making ST into something similar to KV-2 in terms of its shell and fire? I just think its too gimicky with that mobile arty piece.
7 Jun 2019, 15:24 PM
#33
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jun 2019, 14:58 PMNaOCl


This is my experience, and hitting british emplacements and not knocking them out.


Was partially fixed.
Balance and Bugfix Patch – Feb 7th 2019

Added damage bonus of 1.3 vs emplacements. Sturmtiger will now one shot an unbraced Mortar Pit.
11 Jun 2019, 19:12 PM
#34
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 469

Sturmtiger > Blobs, simple as that
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