What if OKW had standard starting resources?

OKW has 100 more manpower and 15 less FU than the other four factions.

What if OKW had lower starting manpower, but the standard 20 starting fuel?

Currently OKW has a very strong early field presence, but their light vehicle timings are pretty slow. This makes them reliant on getting a map control advantage early on to make up the difference and makes them very vulnerable to builds that can match this infantry presence as they can't punish them in the same way Ostheer could with a FHT rush.

Current minimum fuel for each light vehicle:

M20 Utility Car: 65
222 Scout Car: 70
251 Flamer Halftrack: 70
AEC: 85
AAHT: 85
251 Flak: 90
Stuart: 105
Luchs: 115
Puma: 125

It'd change to this:

M20 Utility Car: 65
222 Scout Car: 70
251 Flamer Halftrack: 70
251 Flak: 75
AEC: 85
AAHT: 85
Luchs: 100
Stuart: 105
Puma: 110

After thinking a lot about the ramifications of this, I think it'd be an improvement.

OKW no longer has an oppressive early game, and it no longer gets its back snapped by builds that out-infantry spam it (hello UKF Bolster opening). It becomes much more manageable in the first few minutes, but demands the swift construction of an AT counter, limiting the enemy's ability to spam infantry in turn.

Worth experimenting with in the next patch?

I keep seeing this "100mp" stuff and it is simply false based on all other factions. UKF have different starting MP than soviets etc. there is no magical value that all factions have.

But imagine this.... all factions start with the same resources....... cough*****and get nondoc flamers cough*****

I keep seeing this "100mp" stuff and it is simply false based on all other factions.

I could be wrong here, as I simply don't remember, but I thought OKW received an extra 100MP starting resources when the SWS was changed from being free to costing 100 manpower?

I could be wrong here, but I thought OKW received an extra 100MP starting resources when the SWS went from being free to costing 100 manpower?

That was in 2015. I have no idea what even happened then it was before I even played the game. But I did the calculations of everyones starting resources a few months ago and it isn't like OKW is loaded to the brim with MP. They have like 30 more MP than UKF and 15 less fuel. It's soviets who are actually pretty far back in terms of MP.

And all of it is relatively irrelevent because instead of factions being based around the same resources, they've all been given a random starting resource value and then said "this unit comes at this time" and adjusted prices accordingly. It isn't necessarily bad, but it gets quite confusing when you actually try and balance things.

I keep seeing this "100mp" stuff and it is simply false based on all other factions. UKF have different starting MP than soviets etc. there is no magical value that all factions have.

But imagine this.... all factions start with the same resources....... cough*****and get nondoc flamers cough*****

OKW: 340 + 300 (Sturm) = 640
OST: 425 + 200 (Pio) = 625
SOV: 390 + 170 (Combat Engi) = 560
UKF: 340 + 280 (Infantry Section) = 620
USF: 400 + 200 (Rear Echelon) = 600

welp

They do have a higher army value on the ingame graphs though. It always throws off the casters.

OKW: 340 + 300 (Sturm) = 640
OST: 425 + 200 (Pio) = 625
SOV: 390 + 170 (Combat Engi) = 620
UKF: 340 + 280 (Infantry Section) = 620
USF: 400 + 200 (Rear Echelon) = 600

welp

They do have a higher army value on the ingame graphs though. It always throws off the casters.

Check soviet math

Check soviet math

i am having an excellent day

First post updated. I stand by 'weaker first three minutes + faster teching' being an improvement to OKW, but the 100 MP thing is throughly debunked.

+1 to nondoc flamers.

Assimetrical balance is a good thing, but standarization is good too.
IMO seems fair to balance the starting resources for every faction, at least that leaves a cleaner perspective to begin discussing about balance.

I would consider though only starting resources and not the 'free' squad. Because for UKF and OKW, pios and IS are expensive troops because of their performance and they make bad starting troops.
Otherwise OKM could start with kubel and UKF with UC (?

+1 to nondoc flamers.

Is it needed with the mortar changes? USF's got a T0 mortar, OKW has flame nades and UKF has an artillery flare that usually takes the building itself down.

OKM

OKW.

Is it needed with the mortar changes? USF's got a T0 mortar, OKW has flame nades and UKF has an artillery flare that usually takes the building itself down.

Oh i know about them already and i acknowledge about those tools. Since its offtopic im putting my response in spoilers
Show Spoiler

OKW.

Thnx, my bad, i keep fast writing and dont check misspelled words

I keep seeing this "100mp" stuff and it is simply false based on all other factions. UKF have different starting MP than soviets etc. there is no magical value that all factions have.

But imagine this.... all factions start with the same resources....... cough*****and get nondoc flamers cough*****

Sturms used to cost 400 MP.
They got their cost reduced without compensation, until the SWS was made buildable instead of a free unit you get every 5 minutes, I could be wrong though it was a long time ago.

Sturms used to cost 400 MP.
They got their cost reduced without compensation, until the SWS was made buildable instead of a free unit you get every 5 minutes, I could be wrong though it was a long time ago.

That is incorrect SP where 320 not 400.

That is incorrect SP where 320 not 400.

They used to be 400 back when REs did less damage and costed 160 MP to build.

That would be a bad idea because no one wants faster Luchs. The timings are good as they are. OKW starts with less fuel but their LV timings still aren´t bad. Not sure what you mean with that. OKW has insane capping and fighting power in the first minutes so unless you get completly outplayed you will have better map control and thus more ressource income.

They used to be 400 back when REs did less damage and costed 160 MP to build.

Can you find the patch where the price was lowered?

I keep seeing this "100mp" stuff and it is simply false based on all other factions. UKF have different starting MP than soviets etc. there is no magical value that all factions have.

But imagine this.... all factions start with the same resources....... cough*****and get nondoc flamers cough*****

Go through the patch notes.
You'll see OKW got 100 bonus, ost got 80 bonus and UKF got 60 bonus.
Subtract these values from their starting mp and add starting units value, you'll end up with same value as soviets and USF.
Tho, remember that Spios used to cost 320 as well.
RETs also used to cost 160 if I'm not mistaken.
Can't remember if other units cost changed or not.

I could be wrong here, as I simply don't remember, but I thought OKW received an extra 100MP starting resources when the SWS was changed from being free to costing 100 manpower?

It was also the same patch that increased volks cost, which meant OKW couldn't start building 1st volk instantly.
For the same reason UKF got their 60 extra.
Ost is just living off of welfare.

OP forget that OKW doesn't need to tech grenade, weapon upgrades or med truck. Which are a substantial saving of fuel.

At least any USF unit in his list should be taxed with an addition average of 20 fuel per unit.
Yes a M20 actually has the same price of a 222 if both players need to build their medic tool first and Stuart equal in fuel price than the Puma.

I mean, that something we already see ingame, you never see a Stuart out before a Luch, or that mean no ambulance and no BARs vs healing crate, flamnade and STG upgrade.

OP forget that OKW doesn't need to tech grenade, weapon upgrades or med truck. Which are a substantial saving of fuel.

OKW needs to pay 15 fuel (and 100MP) for the medics. Or continuously pay 45 munitions per 3 med kits if they go Mechanized.

OP forget that OKW doesn't need to tech grenade, weapon upgrades or med truck. Which are a substantial saving of fuel.

At least any USF unit in his list should be taxed with an addition average of 20 fuel per unit.
Yes a M20 actually has the same price of a 222 if both players need to build their medic tool first and Stuart equal in fuel price than the Puma.

I mean, that something we already see ingame, you never see a Stuart out before a Luch, or that mean no ambulance and no BARs vs healing crate, flamnade and STG upgrade.

None of Axis CAN pay fuel to get heals from T0. Only UKF have to upgrade IS using muni only once, but IS are their mainline inf and starting squad.
As you know, OST have to build the bunker and OKW has to go T1 or waste muni on those crates.

Its not an advantage of axis what you mention but a limitation.

None of Axis CAN pay fuel to get heals from T0. Only UKF have to upgrade IS using muni only once, but IS are their mainline inf and starting squad.
As you know, OST have to build the bunker and OKW has to go T1 or waste muni on those crates.

Its not an advantage of axis what you mention but a limitation.

"waste" muni on 3 aoe heals anywhere on the map? You want WASTE check out the society's 250mp for 3 medics, locked in base, that have to touch the model to heal them (and get pathing-ed) when they are already the least MP effecient faction around with 160mp needed to dump in their 1st building and 300mp to have infantry

The crates are a wonderful stop gap and great to have the option to have.