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PGren G43

10 Oct 2013, 00:48 AM
#1
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198

I know it's not a big deal (not many people are using G43 on PGrens anyway), but I wonder why it wasn't changed this patch, like other small arms were.
10 Oct 2013, 00:54 AM
#2
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
Dunno.

PPSH wasn't changed either, according to the notes.
10 Oct 2013, 12:41 PM
#3
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198

Yes, but you miss a thing about PPSh - it's already in line with other weapons, since it does 8 damage per hit (which means no overkill vs full health entities).

PGren G43 wasn't changed and it still does 30 damage per hit, and is probably the last small arms weapons used in MP which damage per hit isn't a divisor of 80.
10 Oct 2013, 14:33 PM
#4
avatar of computerheat
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 117

Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3

G43s are different on PGrens and Grens? I had no idea :O
10 Oct 2013, 14:55 PM
#5
avatar of StephennJF

Posts: 934

Ahh yeh you might be right! I never really get PG G43 because I prefer them having the short range weapon but if what your saying it might be good to give a shot.
10 Oct 2013, 16:21 PM
#6
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198

MP44 is about 50% stronger than PGren G43 at short (0-10) range, but loses the advantage pretty fast.
At around 17-18 range they do the same damage and at 30 range, G43 does almost 3 times as much damage as MP44.
Also it's damage it's much more "bursty" due to 30 damage per hit. But it does have moving accuracy penalty that MP44 doesn't have.

They will most likely get changed somewhat next patch (I guess to something more resembling Gren G43s right now), so I wouldn't get used to them as they are now.

MP44 stats
PGren G43 stats
Gren G43 stats
10 Oct 2013, 18:01 PM
#7
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

tensai, i was curious if youd be willing to compare your dps formula with mine? a lot of our numbers match, but some do not, like the mp44. your dps at near is 17% higher than mine and 8% higher at far. then for the assault gren mp40, your near dps is 8.5% lower but 6% higher at far.

at first i thought this was an issue with one of our burst weapon formulas, but our ppsh numbers match exactly, so now im not sure. our single shot weapons seem to match perfectly though. i also noticed your dps charts seem curved so im just curious how you did things :)

just pm me if you want, since this isnt entirely related to this thread.
10 Oct 2013, 18:25 PM
#8
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525

Haven't played in a while,are PanzerGrenadiers invincible now,aka OP?
10 Oct 2013, 18:29 PM
#9
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

Haven't played in a while,are PanzerGrenadiers invincible now,aka OP?


is that seriously what you got from reading this thread? no change was made... therefore invincible and OP..
10 Oct 2013, 18:44 PM
#10
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525

Sorry for not expressing myself correctly but isn't 30 damage per hit a little too powerfull,Conscripts had 8 or something with PPsh?
10 Oct 2013, 18:44 PM
#11
avatar of pgmoney

Posts: 86

the dps for gren is still higher then pgren do to cooldown and accuracy is still better with gren. in using the g43 on both squads last night I found the g43 changes on gren to be an improvement against support units with the quicker shots. i agree with stephen though still prefer the close range of pgren not g43, and yes i tried it after patch for pgren
11 Oct 2013, 15:03 PM
#12
avatar of KingAnj

Posts: 75

I want to still make a BO/Strat where using Grens & PGrens G43s and "Ambush tactics"!

However, that commander has WAYYYYY too much muni in their abilities. Give a commander with ambush, g43, who cares, then 'Fuel to muni'!

That being said, i still think Pgrens with g43s & Shrecks are awesome "vs. all-units-snipers".

However, 180 muni makes me cry.
11 Oct 2013, 15:21 PM
#13
avatar of Lichtbringer

Posts: 476

Sorry for not expressing myself correctly but isn't 30 damage per hit a little too powerfull,Conscripts had 8 or something with PPsh?


30 Damage sounds like a lot. If they would fire as fast as Conscripts with PPsh.
There are many factors for the DPS of a weopon :D, also don't forget the number of weopons for a aquad.
11 Oct 2013, 15:44 PM
#14
avatar of OnCe_Ov3R

Posts: 195

g43s just arent worth it imo, doctrinal and cost 60 munitions per squad, when you can have an upgrade for 60 on grens which does similar damage, just at closer range, and on the pgrens they already have a good gun. It would be more interesting if they were non doctrinal, or they were a global upgrqade like ppsh for soviets, but maybe that would be op i dunno
11 Oct 2013, 16:07 PM
#15
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525



30 Damage sounds like a lot. If they would fire as fast as Conscripts with PPsh.
There are many factors for the DPS of a weopon :D, also don't forget the number of weopons for a aquad.

Well had a game when Ostheer player spammed Grens with LMG's and G43...didn't end well,at each shot the Grens fired a member of my Conscript squad died...
11 Oct 2013, 16:19 PM
#16
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned

Well had a game when Ostheer player spammed Grens with LMG's and G43...didn't end well,at each shot the Grens fired a member of my Conscript squad died...


At cost, this makes sense.

Though its a nightmare for Cons alone to deal with, the solution is other units.
Cons will not, imo, ever, be able to match up to that.
Asymmetrically, Sov must invest in specialist infantry or out-tier with armor to deal with that.
Its a vested Ost prerogative, due to lack od otherwise specislist infantry. Know what I mean?

Cons are never ever going to be able to beat a Gren that is invested with :BOTH LMG and g43s, which anyways, is 8npy possible with ONE commander.

If you invest 120 muni in a unit, it deservedly needs to have some seripus punch.
11 Oct 2013, 17:42 PM
#17
avatar of c r u C e

Posts: 525

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2013, 16:19 PMNullist


At cost, this makes sense.

Though its a nightmare for Cons alone to deal with, the solution is other units.
Cons will not, imo, ever, be able to match up to that.
Asymmetrically, Sov must invest in specialist infantry or out-tier with armor to deal with that.
Its a vested Ost prerogative, due to lack od otherwise specislist infantry. Know what I mean?

Cons are never ever going to be able to beat a Gren that is invested with :BOTH LMG and g43s, which anyways, is 8npy possible with ONE commander.

If you invest 120 muni in a unit, it deservedly needs to have some seripus punch.

Totally agree with you here,learned that the hard way though...my usual build is 4Cons->Shocks->SU-85 or T34's,depending on the situation and the opponent's playstyle...
Doesn't seem to work anymore,will need to change my strat :(
Also,I hate using M3's and Maxims :))
11 Oct 2013, 22:14 PM
#18
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
4Cons->Shocks->SU-85 or T34's,depending on the situation and the opponent's playstyle... Doesn't seem to work anymore,will need to change my strat :(


May be more viable now, again, since LMG took a nerf. LMGs take time and significant resources to accumalate on Ost. Its not like all Grens suddenly sprout LMGs out their asses, so the buildup is gradual and can be anticipated and be nipped in the bud with appropriate counters (primarily armored vehicles, possibly where T70s shine in particular). And Shocks are still the "go-to" infantry choice vs LMGs anyways, since their armor largely negates that AI small arms investment on Osts part.

I personally cant make good use of the G43 commander, but my skill level means that doesn't count as much of a statement. However I also don't see anyone I watch playing, in streams, replays or youtube casts, building them either. Not for months now, infact. I still have not to this day, despite hundreds of hours of watching streams and casts, ever seen "Interrogate" actually used.
11 Oct 2013, 23:18 PM
#19
avatar of Endeav

Posts: 170

I was sifting through the game files a bit.

The Panzergrenadiers do NOT use their own G43 variant, they use the grenadier G43 variant. I highly recommend you DO NOT UPGRADE G43's on your panzer grenadiers.

Relevant entry in the files:

panzer_grenadier_squad_mp
Code
| squad_upgrade_ext: {
| | $REF: "sbpextensions\squad_upgrade_ext.lua";
| | number_of_slots: -1f;
| | upgrades: [
| | | upgrade: "panzer_grenadier_panzershreck_atw_item_mp";
| | | upgrade: "light_infantry_package";
| | | upgrade: "ambush_camou_package";
| | | upgrade: "panzerbusche_39_mp";
| | | upgrade: "panzer_grenadier_panzershreck_atw_item_second_mp";
| | | upgrade: "panzer_grenadier_panzershreck_atw_item_third_mp";
| | ];
| };



light_infantry_package
Code
| | actions: [
| | | slot_item_add: {
| | | | $REF: "action\slot_item_add.lua";
| | | | permanent: true;
| | | | slot_item: "jaeger_g43_rifle_item_mp";
| | | };
| | | slot_item_add: {
| | | | $REF: "action\slot_item_add.lua";
| | | | permanent: true;
| | | | slot_item: "jaeger_g43_rifle_item_mp";
| | | };
| | ];


The light_infantry_package upgrade also applies to grenadiers, therefore THEY GET THE SAME WEAPON.
12 Oct 2013, 10:20 AM
#20
avatar of TensaiOni

Posts: 198

That explains it then!

I've checked some old patch data that I've saved (3 or 4 last patches) and actually PGrens never did use PGren G43 - at least in the last few months, they were using normal G43 (I guess at some point they did use PGrens G43, like in the beta).

That also reminds me that I finally finish automated ability data grabbing - if it was done, this whole topic would be a non-issue!
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