Soviet strafe

I will try it with an Ostwind, but I don't expect too much. And saving 240 mun isn't that hard: if you had in early game mapcontrol, and didn't build flamers or PPSH-41 or you just have an mun-op its not as hard as you think to get 240 muns.

But it's reasonably hard to get 240 munis then blow it and get another 240 munis, unlike the 120 muni strafe.

the il2 is ridiculously strong now. i find it worse than the old german strafe honestly. that one didnt search the map finding a target, it only killed units that stayed in the smoke. the il2 will hunt your units down and kill them while they retreat. you can also call it somewhere that the enemy cant see (so they dont see the smoke) and the il2 can catch units off guard. ive also had panthers get engine damage from them since they have such a high rate of fire. its even killed a few panthers that were somewhat low on health. this plane can completely turn games around, although it can be countered by having enough ostwinds.

i would suggest reducing its search radius so it can actually be avoided. a slight penetration reduction might also be good. i know its a 23mm, but with its very high rate of fire, even a low chance to pen results in a lot of damage to tanks. this ability should only be strong against infantry, just like the german 37mm strafe is only useful against vehicles. even then, the german 37mm strafe is really lacking compared to the il2, so that could probably use a buff as well.

I agree I love this thing now!! It loiters around the battlefield for a good amount of time and finds targets, sometimes outside the target area. You really have to be careful as a german player. Ive seen it kill on the retreat too. I actually have a replay to show but I can't till I get home from work.

There is ample warning for it though, you can see the bullets get closer and closer to your units, if you miss the initial smoke retreat you could always retreat when your hear its diving and when its scary massive bullets are hitting the floor. I really think its working as intended. Its 240 munitions which means it can not be spammed and for such a huge investment the Germans should be kept off the battlefield for a second, or at least be extremely careful. I wouldn't wander off if I saw the IL2 circling the battlefield.

The same game I will post later, the IL2 went down after the 3-4 pass. Ostwind shot it down, but not before it did some damage. This plane gives me chills, like the sound of railway artillery when it screams through the air.

in a 1v1 you cant afford to have an ostwind sitting around just in case, and my experience is that it will destroy all your inf all over hte battlefield even if you retreat, which is just wrong as you can't recover

The above statement is not true. If you keep your infantry around and bunched up that may be the case. It won't b base rape units unless it was called at the base. I've seen it kill one unit on retreat and that seemed like a fluke. Just a case of the wrong place at the wrong time

Well, someone pls tell me what I'm doing wrong. Because when I use the Il2, it mostly just circles and circles untill it runs out of time, but it rarely hits anything.

Especially not if it was called to an area near the map edge. It seems that it can't find an angle at the outlying areas.

That goes for the Sturmovik bombing run too btw. I've had several runs do nothing at all. I just buzzes around and never delivers a bomb.

How does killing a unit and suppressing a unit equate. I would take killing a unit over making it crawl around anyday.

Who said equates? I said fair. Like stuka dive and il2 bombing run. They are fair not equal. Like is2 and tiger. Fair not equal.

Well, someone pls tell me what I'm doing wrong. Because when I use the Il2, it mostly just circles and circles untill it runs out of time, but it rarely hits anything.

Especially not if it was called to an area near the map edge. It seems that it can't find an angle at the outlying areas.

That goes for the Sturmovik bombing run too btw. I've had several runs do nothing at all. I just buzzes around and never delivers a bomb.

Yeah really. That's why I said earlier that it's not worth the cost. Obviously I'm doing it wrong.

i think it is a tad too strong, ostwind isnt a counter because in real game terms you cant have an ostwind as a behind the lines unit to deal with this, you need it attacking/defending on the ground for its cost.

Well, someone pls tell me what I'm doing wrong. Because when I use the Il2, it mostly just circles and circles untill it runs out of time, but it rarely hits anything.

Especially not if it was called to an area near the map edge. It seems that it can't find an angle at the outlying areas.

That goes for the Sturmovik bombing run too btw. I've had several runs do nothing at all. I just buzzes around and never delivers a bomb.

I think, I'm not sure, but I think it requires vision on units and then it goes after them. It's good to displace a defensive position or a blob around a halftrack. Then you have vision and it's less likely that the Germans are gonna retreat right away.

Also, it's beautiful during base pins. Like sickeningly good.

Btw.: It seems to me that the M5 quad is much better at shooting down planes than the Ostwind.

Are their stats actually that different? Or is it just a random observation?

Btw.: It seems to me that the M5 quad is much better at shooting down planes than the Ostwind.

Are their stats actually that different? Or is it just a random observation?

From the brief Dev comment I vaguely remember reading from months back (in the interim of which there has been no announced change to AA), M5 Quad had a slightly better chance per burst. Biut it wasnt much.

I remember thinking it was ok, considering how armored an Ostwind is in comparison.

I also remember thinking that frankly both Quad and Ostwind AA was subpar, and that pintle mounted AA was so low as to be pretty much ignored.

Something like 12% for Quad and 10% for Ostwind, and 1% per pintle MG.

AA is calculated differently iirc, in that it only requires one "hit" to kill the plane.

Overall, I think AA should be improved, but since I dont play 2v2+, where aircraft are more prominent, I dont know how bad it gets there, though I can speculate its much more needed considering how many of the Commanders are more erife for exploitation in those modes.

Sorry, thats all I got.

From the brief Dev comment I vaguely remember reading from months back (in the interim of which there has been no announced change to AA), M5 Quad had a slightly better chance per burst. Biut it wasnt much.

I remember thinking it was ok, considering how armored an Ostwind is in comparison.

I also remember thinking that frankly both Quad and Ostwind AA was subpar, and that pintle mounted AA was so low as to be pretty much ignored.

Something like 12% for Quad and 10% for Ostwind, and 1% per pintle MG.

AA is calculated differently iirc, in that it only requires one "hit" to kill the plane.

Overall, I think AA should be improved, but since I dont play 2v2+, where aircraft are more prominent, I dont know how bad it gets there, though I can speculate its much more needed considering how many of the Commanders are more erife for exploitation in those modes.

Sorry, thats all I got.

I play plenty of 2v2 and AA is perfectly fine there. As Soviets the only real air threat with big impact is the 3cp strafe. But this is only 1 commander and the m5 is dirt cheap.
For Germans it's a bit different. The IL-2 is very strong, but it gets easily countered by the Ostwind. (You dont need to have it behind lines just behind your stug/p4 when pushing) But the problem is most Germans (me and my partner included) don't get ostwind and there so many commanders with the il2 which makes it almost impossible to predict.
And 115 fuel is quite a big investment to get a proper AA. But if you really desperate you can get a 222 which I shot down couple of planes down with as well.
But in general I don't like these strong abilities which gets countered so easily, if you don't have any AA as germans you are pretty much screwed for like, 60 seconds? You have no idea when it strikes and in what area as it finds it targets by itself all over the map.But one ostwind and byebye 240 munitions...

Good point on the 222, which wasnt mentioned back then by the Dev, and which I have no idea what its AA rating is at.

Related to that though, M3 should also then have some AA potential, if it doesnt already, at a slighly lesser rate than 222 (which I presume you to mean upgun), or else Sov is categorically fked for any cheap AA options barring the dedicated M5 Quad. A .50 Cal is most certainly considered viable AA vs low flying aircraft, especially at this period.

Imo, generally speaking, onfield AA units should have a very strong capacity to negate aircraft. A) Because I believe units>Commanders, is a better balance principle. Since Commanders are situational, whereas native units are the games baseline. B) AA unit cost is very high imo, on both Ostwind and M5 Quad, for only AI capacity. I want to see that equity fully returned vs situational AA. B) Because it also requires positioning of the landbased AA unit in order to counter the aircraft, and I believe that should be rewarded in spades. Its easy to point and click, fire and forget an Aircraft ability, but having your AA covering that, should have a very high success rate of countering it.

Know what I mean? I would like to see AA action/commitment trump indiscriminate Aircraft use. It should be that if you havent checked their is no AA overwatching your target zone for the Aircraft, you fucking fail when your planes arrive and find an AA barrel pointed right at them. I try not to refer to IRL, but there, airstrikes are absolutely out of the question until it is ensures there is nothing in the target zone that can shoot back. No recon to ensure there is no AA? No fking way you are getting air support.

A lot of the time I know that Allied bombers and fighterbombers were dodging flak and small arms fire constantly while making their attacks. Many planes were still lost even after there was zero Luftwaffe presence in an area. I just read a recently published book on WWII in Italy I can cite it but you should just trust me.

A lot of the time I know that Allied bombers and fighterbombers were dodging flak and small arms fire constantly while making their attacks. Many planes were still lost even after there was zero Luftwaffe presence in an area. I just read a recently published book on WWII in Italy I can cite it but you should just trust me.

Idd, for the kind of low altitude strafes and bombing runs that are present in this game, you would definitely have been subjected to even superficial small-arms fire from rifles.

Infantry HATES aircraft. Every weapon in the unit will be aimed upwards and trying its damnedest to bring it down. They'll throw stones if they have to.

Aircraft generally weren't very armored. Armor, if there was any, usually took the form of a metal plate beneath the pilot, to prevent from being shot in the goddam ass.

Even for dogfights, you cant pack enough plating onto a plane and expect it to fly, to be able to deflect the kind of munitions another plane would fire at you, so there was little point to it. Most important was the cockpit undercarriage and, if possible, the cupola. And the fuel tank. And ammo storage. If possible.

Right I was just correcting

I try not to refer to IRL, but there, airstrikes are absolutely out of the question until it is ensures there is nothing in the target zone that can shoot back.

Right I was just correcting

Ahh. I see. Touche!

I like the idea of an area of denial being established by AA. Perhaps a toggle option on the unit that has them act as an area deterrent. For example you toggle the flak panzer or half track causing it to focus at the air (reducing ground effectiveness or eliminating it not sure which would work better). Then no aerial units can be called in in that proximity or perhaps a x2 or x3 accuracy at air targets. This would certainly add an interesting element to aerial assets.

That's an awesome idea. More control is almost always better.

It's definitely very good but relic changed it completely.

Now it's actually worth the 240 munition cost in terms of killing power but at the same time it's got a few drawbacks:
1. it's slow and shit. It takes time to circle the battlefield before even going for a bombing run. That gives tons of time to retreat
2. Germans definitely have 2 options to kill it - ostwind OR armored car. The upgunned armored car is such a cheap investment to kill the plane I would always keep one around..