Is it really hard to balance out these artillery units?
It's a complete joke right now, all these units are being used for is shoot at the base and bleed mp endlessly.
If you happen to be soviet or USF, good luck preserving your medics.
Or maybe that's what the balance actually dictated for the howitzers in this game? Even though this is hilarious to watch or play with, there hasn't been one game where I didn't see somebody just shooting at the base forever.
I have yet to see somebody using it to harass turtles or as a mortar with longer range and AOE as it was intended, or at the very least is able to do.
LeFH 18 and ML-20 what are they good for?
2 May 2019, 23:57 PM
#1
Posts: 378
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
2 May 2019, 23:58 PM
#2
Posts: 5279
play a team game and watch how they massacre turtles.
#stalinwept
3 May 2019, 00:04 AM
#3
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
The title reminds me of something someone said about war a long time ago.
3 May 2019, 00:06 AM
#4
Posts: 378
play a team game and watch how they massacre turtles.
Unless you play with either honest or dumb players who can't see the obvious advantage of targeting the base when they select the drop area, it just happens in team games all the time, the same as in 1v1.
Actually, in 1v1, ML-20 only use is to target the Panzer HQ or Med SWS.
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
3 May 2019, 00:23 AM
#5
Posts: 682
Clearly they need smoke shells too.
/s
3 May 2019, 01:04 AM
#6
Posts: 2358
I have seen many people not happy about how lucky you must get to hit a couple of shells when using any immobile howitzer (B4 included) so i ask.
What if buildtimes and cooldown after firing is doubled (or so) or even buildlimit to 1 and then reduce their spread and increase aoe aswell? Time between shots could be increased too. This way in 1v1s they offer a not RNG based tool and in teamgames artyfest is limited to 1 per player.
What if buildtimes and cooldown after firing is doubled (or so) or even buildlimit to 1 and then reduce their spread and increase aoe aswell? Time between shots could be increased too. This way in 1v1s they offer a not RNG based tool and in teamgames artyfest is limited to 1 per player.
3 May 2019, 01:18 AM
#7
Posts: 17
I've always personally found singular artillery pieces to be useless but powerful in pairs since you can stagger the targeting area to make people back up into the 2nd barrage when they see the first shell drop.
However you can't really get away with going double artillery in 1s so its almost exclusively a team game thing
However you can't really get away with going double artillery in 1s so its almost exclusively a team game thing
3 May 2019, 10:25 AM
#8
Posts: 1096
I've always personally found singular artillery pieces to be useless but powerful in pairs since you can stagger the targeting area to make people back up into the 2nd barrage when they see the first shell drop.
However you can't really get away with going double artillery in 1s so its almost exclusively a team game thing
Recently in team games I've found building 2/3 before firing a single barrage is terrific when against a OKW player as when you do finally use them you can wipe their bases off the map before they can counter fully.
Takes a while though as I still try to keep a good army presence as well as no one likes the guy who costs his team the game because he spammed artillery and nothing else.
3 May 2019, 10:37 AM
#9
Posts: 1392
The LeFH18 is only good because of UHU-bug. Fix the infrared ability and you will see a wonder.
3 May 2019, 10:57 AM
#10
Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1
If howitzers were capable of auto-fire... Like a mortar... I wonder how they'd work for balance? Obviously, either reduce range or make them like an MG & force to face properly (or both).
Howitzers are inherently weaker than rocket artillery because rocket artillery is able to saturate an area in a short amount of time. Both sides have abilities that are able to outright destroy the gun so, when those commanders are used properly, they are rendered null. :/
Howitzers are inherently weaker than rocket artillery because rocket artillery is able to saturate an area in a short amount of time. Both sides have abilities that are able to outright destroy the gun so, when those commanders are used properly, they are rendered null. :/
3 May 2019, 11:01 AM
#11
Posts: 50
Maybe giving artillery the ability to fire smoke at an area for prolonged periods of time(longer than normal barrages) could be a way to make it more interesting?
Maybe giving artillery different barrage patterns or giving the player the ability to control it more directly could make it more interesting? Just throwing out ideas to make arty less of a base bombing lottery, because right now the only synergy it has with other units is area-denial, which is typically not a major problem for the enemy, unless there is a lot of artillery, or you get some really lucky shots.
Maybe giving artillery different barrage patterns or giving the player the ability to control it more directly could make it more interesting? Just throwing out ideas to make arty less of a base bombing lottery, because right now the only synergy it has with other units is area-denial, which is typically not a major problem for the enemy, unless there is a lot of artillery, or you get some really lucky shots.
3 May 2019, 11:21 AM
#12
Posts: 378
They would work just fine like this, make them not able to shoot on or near the base and decrease their cooldown time.
I mean if they were intended to be high caliber howitzers, why not just let them be howitzers?
SO far I don't see what's so great about these units right now, they are just built to shoot on the base, nothing else, that's the only purpose they serve and I have never seen somebody doing anything different.
And why not? You would be dumb not to abuse them that way, you just click at the target ability and see for yourself on the map, it marked in big capital letters " SHOOT HERE " .
I mean if they were intended to be high caliber howitzers, why not just let them be howitzers?
SO far I don't see what's so great about these units right now, they are just built to shoot on the base, nothing else, that's the only purpose they serve and I have never seen somebody doing anything different.
And why not? You would be dumb not to abuse them that way, you just click at the target ability and see for yourself on the map, it marked in big capital letters " SHOOT HERE " .
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
3 May 2019, 11:25 AM
#13
Posts: 3260
They would work just fine like this, make them not able to shoot on or near the base and decrease their cooldown time.
That's an excellent fix for 1v1, but it might be a problem for team games. Howitzers are very popular in narrow lane grindfests.
3 May 2019, 11:28 AM
#14
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
SO far I don't see what's so great about these units right now, they are just built to shoot on the base, nothing else, that's the only purpose they serve and I have never seen somebody doing anything different.
Team games is a completely different story, with a lot of static / concentrated positions and predictable retreat/attack routes rather than highly mobile warfare like 1v1s. Howitzer spam is cancer in team games and if anything Howitzers should be toned down (nerf cooldown). It's just a unit that isn't very helpful in (higher level) 1v1s, but serves a completely different purpose in team games, like the Axis heavy TDs. I don't see a way to make it viable in both modes.
3 May 2019, 11:40 AM
#15
Posts: 132
Howitzers cost foremost too much pop, but also too much manpower to be an effective unit most of the time ime. Make 2 howitzers and that's 30 pop you can't spend on tanks, for units that are only useful if there is a clear frontline and you have a solid army already so they won't just overrun you.
The only point of howitzers is that they don't cost fuel. But this isn't really a big deal, considering that rocket artillery is better than them (not just in effect but also that they take less pop) - so I'd rather pay for a fuel cache + katyusha than a howitzer. This doesn't really delay your tanks too much anyway because the 600 manpower for a howitzer will still prevent you from making tanks. Only OKW can't make caches.
And don't get me started on B4s, total waste of resources. They can't even hit visible static targets if you are fortunate enough to find any.
The only point of howitzers is that they don't cost fuel. But this isn't really a big deal, considering that rocket artillery is better than them (not just in effect but also that they take less pop) - so I'd rather pay for a fuel cache + katyusha than a howitzer. This doesn't really delay your tanks too much anyway because the 600 manpower for a howitzer will still prevent you from making tanks. Only OKW can't make caches.
And don't get me started on B4s, total waste of resources. They can't even hit visible static targets if you are fortunate enough to find any.
Writes out of 2v2 perspective.
3 May 2019, 11:45 AM
#16
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
The only point of howitzers is that they don't cost fuel.
[…]
This doesn't really delay your tanks comparably much anyway because the 600 manpower for a howitzer will still prevent you from making tanks.
Howitzers were changed to cost around 350-400 manpower and around 50 fuel a long time ago.
3 May 2019, 11:46 AM
#17
Posts: 132
Howitzers were changed to cost around 350-400 manpower and around 50 fuel a long time ago.
I must have been playing a different game or been high on mushrooms then, I made a couple of lefh-18s a couple of days ago and they cost 600 manpower as far as I remember.
Writes out of 2v2 perspective.
3 May 2019, 12:12 PM
#18
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
play a team game and watch how they massacre turtles.
play a team game and watch how the howitzers are always getting destroyed by an offmap strike within 1 minute after construction.
3 May 2019, 12:15 PM
#19
Posts: 36
Permanently BannedJust what? Almost nobody bombards bases in teamgames (3v3 mostly) but bombard the doodoo out of turtles and "frontlines" before VP's and what not. If you have a brit in your team that tries to turtle you can almost guarantee there will be a Lefh at the other side.
They are too inaccurate to be able to hit bases efficiently at the ranges in team games. Forward healings and bases are another thing of course but your HQ. Maps like Rzhev will always turn into arty fighting and hardly ever baseraping with it until there isnt much by the bank of the frozen lake.
Then you have IL's bombing them and Stuka dives taking them out too.
If someone poured 400 mp 50 f to a piece of artillery in 1v1 and you cant deal with the lack of other units/tanks then that seems like a personal issue mostly.
They are too inaccurate to be able to hit bases efficiently at the ranges in team games. Forward healings and bases are another thing of course but your HQ. Maps like Rzhev will always turn into arty fighting and hardly ever baseraping with it until there isnt much by the bank of the frozen lake.
Then you have IL's bombing them and Stuka dives taking them out too.
If someone poured 400 mp 50 f to a piece of artillery in 1v1 and you cant deal with the lack of other units/tanks then that seems like a personal issue mostly.
3 May 2019, 12:44 PM
#20
Posts: 148
"Noob base bombing gg"
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