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Sections need their out of cover stats reverted

26 Apr 2019, 18:44 PM
#61
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



Volks are cheaper, they are not better. One has to be braindead to let 4 volks advance across open cover past 4 tommies and a suppressing bren carrier, then eat a flame nade, and then eat a spec ops nade to loose a squad.

Also it is a bit weird how two vehicles with more expensive tech (with lower starting resources) might be better than one vehicle, hmmmmm I wonder why.


Volks are good because of their cheapness and utility, and five man StG volks beat four man 280mp vanilla Tommies. Even if your in green cover or a house they can run up and flush you out with flame nades.

Which is why in current meta bolster is so popular, and my exact point...

With Brits you are juggling some awkward micro of Tommy+WASP+royal engie to get the same tools that a volk has stock for free.

If you're going to delay IS combat upgrades without giving them missing tools, playing OKW vs UKF will be a walk in the park.
26 Apr 2019, 18:58 PM
#62
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Do you know the arc of each MG?

30 degrees for bren with Horizontal speed 65
60 for kubel with Horizontal speed 24

on the other hand the rotation is
40 for kubel and
60 for WC
26 Apr 2019, 19:09 PM
#63
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2019, 18:58 PMVipper

30 degrees for bren with Horizontal speed 65
60 for kubel with Horizontal speed 24

on the other hand the rotation is
40 for kubel and
60 for WC


TBH, this is what makes them feel "clunky" to use and not good sniper counters in both cases.
26 Apr 2019, 19:10 PM
#64
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



TBH, this is what makes them feel "clunky" to use and not good sniper counters in both cases.
a 120 arc for both would be much better
26 Apr 2019, 19:20 PM
#65
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


Your suggested changes were tried and then reverted in testmod a year ago, mostly because 280mp sections got walked over by volks and even ostruppen.



If you nerf bolster then you would have to swap at made from sapper to Tommy, add a mortar, non doc flamers to make up for that loss of aggression. Otherwise you'll have an OKW stompfest like testmod a year ago.




Ostruppen walking over sections? LOL. I didn't suggest nerfing bolster. I just suggested reverting whatever cover related changes the sections had so they don't perform so well outside cover.
26 Apr 2019, 19:21 PM
#66
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

a 120 arc for both would be much better


LIVE (can't remember at this point what they implemented on mod) Kubel needs more changes in order to be effective against snipers.
The only good light vehicles against snipers are the clowncar type ones.
26 Apr 2019, 19:56 PM
#67
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



TBH, this is what makes them feel "clunky" to use and not good sniper counters in both cases.

The Kubel has very low DPS on the move and that it what make it bad at chasing snipers.

Regardless how good these unit are vs sniper, the point I was making thou was the WC DPS is not low as it was claimed. On the contrary it on of the highest.

The M3 on the other hand has very high DPS even on the move.

Finally the penetration of these weapons could be reduced so that kubel does not die so fast.
26 Apr 2019, 22:29 PM
#68
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2019, 19:56 PMVipper

The Kubel has very low DPS on the move and that it what make it bad at chasing snipers.


It also has pretty low range of 35, which is equal to the base gun of the UC, 5 less than the 40 range of the WC's upgrade and 10 less (WTF!?) than the wc51.
26 Apr 2019, 22:53 PM
#69
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

but it costs 50mp less. what do you expect, a kampfwagen!?
26 Apr 2019, 23:44 PM
#70
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2019, 22:53 PMKoRneY
but it costs 50mp less. what do you expect, a kampfwagen!?


“Ready for a dip.”



"Armor? We're a Schwimmwagen, not an 88."
27 Apr 2019, 00:04 AM
#71
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232

Great thread OP,

I agree with everything you have said. Brit infantry sections are too durable there is really no excuse for them to have a cover bonus as even out of cover they will flat out delete grenadiers. The 5th man bolster upgrade also needs to be locked behind a later tech or have its cost increased.
27 Apr 2019, 02:05 AM
#72
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

I agree with increasing reinforce cost of Tommies, and I also agree about bolster, but I take issue with a lot of your other points.

You said that brits have the easiest time of dealing with light vehicles, but when do you ever have more sappers than other factions have mainline infantry squads? (all other mainlines except normal penals have snares). At most I usually build 2 sappers, and that's still a lot less snares than when I'm playing literally any of the other factions. Also, you can still bully lone tommies with light vehicles with only marginally more caution than before since they aren't the ones with snares.

I mean, I wouldn't really be opposed to them having their cover buffs reverted, but I just don't really understand the logic behind it (given that their reinforce cost should go up and maybe lose bolster). I really do wish brits had some sort of cqb unit in any capacity (REs don't count, they're engineers).
27 Apr 2019, 04:02 AM
#73
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
I agree with increasing reinforce cost of Tommies, and I also agree about bolster, but I take issue with a lot of your other points.

You said that brits have the easiest time of dealing with light vehicles, but when do you ever have more sappers than other factions have mainline infantry squads? (all other mainlines except normal penals have snares). At most I usually build 2 sappers, and that's still a lot less snares than when I'm playing literally any of the other factions. Also, you can still bully lone tommies with light vehicles with only marginally more caution than before since they aren't the ones with snares.

I mean, I wouldn't really be opposed to them having their cover buffs reverted, but I just don't really understand the logic behind it (given that their reinforce cost should go up and maybe lose bolster). I really do wish brits had some sort of cqb unit in any capacity (REs don't count, they're engineers).


AEC is the easiest and best way to counter any light vehicle in the game. Plus it's dirt cheap, and its tech is dirt cheap. Then the piats started working like bazookas and schrecks had a baby. Then snares. And, in a pinch snipers, and AT tommies (not that I'd rely on the last two). And of course the 6pdr which was only slightly nerfed vs lights is still very accurate against them (only 1 in 4 chance of missing a max range shot) Brits have the most stock options available to deal with lights.
27 Apr 2019, 04:19 AM
#74
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



AEC is the easiest and best way to counter any light vehicle in the game. Plus it's dirt cheap, and its tech is dirt cheap. Then the piats started working like bazookas and schrecks had a baby. Then snares. And, in a pinch snipers, and AT tommies (not that I'd rely on the last two). And of course the 6pdr which was only slightly nerfed vs lights is still very accurate against them (only 1 in 4 chance of missing a max range shot) Brits have the most stock options available to deal with lights.

AEC is good, but puma is way better at almost everything except stunning tanks and it's not cheaper than any other AT focused light vehicle (certainly not dirt cheap; it's 60 + 15 fuel) if you count the sidetech, which you should because you almost never build more than one. Worth noting that brit tech is overall cheaper than ost and okw which compensates though. Also, IIRC double 222 will beat an AEC for slightly more manpower and less fuel. PIATs are decent and are especially useful because you can put them on any squad (but you'd have to be an idiot to put them on sections). Snipers and AT tommies... exist, like you said lol. But IMO all that is still essentially balanced out by the fact that brit engineers are the ones with snares, not combat infantry. Sappers are typically less numerous than mainlines in the average game and are significantly less tough, although theyy are usually the go-to PIAT-toters.

Point still stands that tommies could see a reinforce cost increase though.
27 Apr 2019, 06:50 AM
#75
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911


Sappers are typically less numerous than mainlines in the average game and are significantly less tough


Do they not have .9 Received accuracy at vet 0 and .59 at vet 3? I think that's in fact tougher than most mainlines
27 Apr 2019, 07:57 AM
#76
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



AEC is the easiest and best way to counter any light vehicle in the game.

You spelled Puma wrong.
27 Apr 2019, 11:18 AM
#77
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Just put the upgrade in tier 2 ? At least It delays it a bit
27 Apr 2019, 12:05 PM
#78
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Tbh if bolster is getting moved around, I think I would rather see it in anvil and an extra weapon slot in hammer to counter balance it. Then we can see the original identity of Tommies as cover specialists return instead of less mobile but more durable rifles. Bolster is such a great and powerful ability it imo should be restricted
27 Apr 2019, 15:09 PM
#79
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Tbh if bolster is getting moved around, I think I would rather see it in anvil and an extra weapon slot in hammer to counter balance it. Then we can see the original identity of Tommies as cover specialists return instead of less mobile but more durable rifles. Bolster is such a great and powerful ability it imo should be restricted


You'd just remove the other spec from the game.
No one would ever pick Hammer, specially with the current Comet, if Bolster is with the Churchill.
27 Apr 2019, 15:16 PM
#80
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2019, 07:57 AMKatitof

You spelled Puma wrong.


Puma is overall the better vehicle because it scales better and better range, hence is better vs mediums. But AEC is better vs lights cuz it still has adequate on the move accuracy where the puma has even less on the move acc than p4s and panthers. But pumas are both more expensive in unit and tech costs and also locks out free heals while AEC just locks out bofors which is only used vs noobs.
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