OKW "Owl" HT and Special Operations rework idea.

Hello, so me and Widerstreit were talking about the "Owl" 251 OKW Infrared Halftrack (He refers to it as the UHU since that's owl in German) and how to actually "fix" it.

I came to the conclusion that it might be a better idea to just stick it in the Special Operations doctrine as to limit it's abuse and eliminate the other type of extremely abusable ability which offers no counterplay, the dreaded Artillery Flares since it currently seems to be "unfixable" so to speak. To top things off it doesn't make sense from a historical point of view because these Halftracks were only used in special "IR Regiments" and were not widely distributed.

Now besides that I got the idea of redesigning the entire commander around the use of Infrared units, since you already have the Ober "Vampir" IR StG package, if the Owl is added in here they were most often used together with IR scope equipped Panther which brings us to my next very unique and interesting idea.

An IR Scope upgrade for the Panthers replaces the Command Panther. In essence it would be an exclusive upgrade with the MG42 and it would provide the Panthers with increased accuracy outside of their field of vision if the Owl halftrack is lighting up any enemy units in their range ahead of them. Of course provided that it works like that the Owl will need to be able to "lock down" it's scanning ability so the OKW player can concentrate it's arc better.

What this would provide is a unique ability for the OKW Panthers and I would say a more balanced version of the Ostheer spotting Scopes, but for the OKW, it would eliminate the Command Panther which so many people have a problem with. Plus it's a risk and reward utility where there is room for counterplay from the enemy and you need to micro the Owl in order to get the accuracy and use the Panther's full range without any other sight providing units.

Another suggestion I had was to replace the grenade ability of the doctrine which doesn't make sense to me thematically with an IR equipped 251 Halftrack, to work with the Owl like the IR Panthers and provide a mobile reinforcement point for the OKW.

Now the question which pops up is what to replace the Owl in the OKW line up then, I had the idea of a 250 HT but that would overlap with the Special Operations 251 so yeah...

Anyhow this is just a little bit of brainstorming on my part and just being creative, feel free to discuss the idea here and have a nice day, cheers.

Here's a couple of pictures just for reference as well:


IR equipped Panther, notice the "scope" on top of the commander/MG gunner cupola -



IR equipped 251 Halftrack, again the same "scope" on the MG -



I also found a King Tiger model with such a scope but I don't see it mentioned anywhere that it was also mounted on them so let's just keep it to the Panthers for the sake of both balance and historical accuracy if this idea is implemented.

Great ideas! Maybe a little hard to implement but it could fix spec ops finally

It feels like excessively convoluted. The vehicles could mount the mg regardless, and unless the whole arc thing is replaced by a real time scan of the whole arc, the projector may abandon the target just wjen the Tank is popping the shot, making the ability unreliable.

Restricting it to the Panther is nonsense imho. King Tiger was also fitted with this system and a whole slot for a single upgrade to a single tank that you rarely can afford to double up while also denying an anti infantry upgrade smells like crappy commander.

It feels like excessively convoluted. The vehicles could mount the mg regardless, and unless the whole arc thing is replaced by a real time scan of the whole arc, the projector may abandon the target just wjen the Tank is popping the shot, making the ability unreliable.

Restricting it to the Panther is nonsense imho. King Tiger was also fitted with this system and a whole slot for a single upgrade to a single tank that you rarely can afford to double up while also denying an anti infantry upgrade smells like crappy commander.

I just don't want it to be a repeat of the Ostheer spotting scopes, that's all.

Im fine with any way to balance Spec Ops doctrine. Im sick and tired of the Command Panther meta. The flares are broken too in teamgames.

The fact that these ideas are pretty solid too is just the ice on the cake.

Im fine with any way to balance Spec Ops doctrine. Im sick and tired of the Command Panther meta. The flares are broken too in teamgames.

The fact that these ideas are pretty solid too is just the ice on the cake.

Wouldn't forcing that to require Tier 3 basically solve the issue?

Wouldn't forcing that to require Tier 3 basically solve the issue?

IS-2, KV-2 and ISU-152 behind Soviet T4, Tiger I and Elephant behind Battle Phase 2, Churchill Crocodile behind UKF T2, Pershing behind Major, Command Panther behind SPHQ.

You'd fix so much crap in one fell swoop.

Ayup.

I wonder if it's possible to make the searchlight on IR half-track controllable by the player, that alone would make this unit quite a bit more useful.


I think this is a really cool idea, perhaps the IR scopes shouldn't be limited to panther only, but also available to KT. I think it should provide an accuracy bonus of 10% and an additional 10-20% against targets that are spotted by the IR half-track. Also probably something like more sight or revealing enemy vehicles directly in front of the tank in FoW on the minimap.

I wonder if it's possible to make the searchlight on IR half-track controllable by the player, that alone would make this unit quite a bit more useful.

That is an amazing idea. Maybe also let the arc be influenced by line of sight blockers but make the range bigger as compensation.

That is an amazing idea. Maybe also let the arc be influenced by line of sight blockers but make the range bigger as compensation.

I think that LOS blockers shouldn't affect it, that would make it too similar to a lot of other spotting options. In order for it to not be too strong, the searchlight should be activated for a duration and have a cooldown.

Any change should go with a complete repurpose of the vehicle.

I have an idea.

Show Spoiler

I gotta run now.

Have they been able to fix the infra red map hax bug?

I don't think we at the point of removing anything from the base factions and this whole beam spotting mechanic has been broken since WFA went out of beta.

If we had better mod tools, the idea at least would sound plausible.

I have made a similar suggestion:
A Redesign Vamp ST44 and UHU

ST44 become available to all units, providing a small DPS boost (maybe around 5%)

UHU now doctrinal with some added utility like sight range and drop medic kits. In addition shared veterancy.

Scan now a timed ability that decreases the cover bonus of enemy unit and the target size of vehicles.

Replacing it with Sd.Kfz.250 would be neat, but i fear that the mod team simply isn't allowed to replace stock units with doctrinal ones...

Maybe @Miragefla can confirm this so we avoid pointless theorycrafting.

Or turn command panther to command vehicle way the brittish version works. Allowing you to turn any vehicle (if not kubel) to command vehicle

Just make uhu scan only visible on minimap

Just make uhu scan only visible on minimap

Like the partisan commander ability?

That's not a bad idea. It would still allow you to see enemy movement and predict their attacks to an extent without being able to pinpoint locations for artillery.

Just make uhu scan only visible on minimap

Is there a problem with the way it scans now? Is it too strong? I just never had that impression, so I don't understand why it has to work this way.

I thought that it revealing targets and making them more vulnerable to units equipped with IR scopes is a more interesting way to change it, and then you could put it into spec ops and finally do something about the command panther and make this commander revolved around IR.

Of course, I'm not really hoping for a spec ops rework, but if the Owl has to be changed, I don't see why it should only reveal on the minimap.