It still stands that the Panther has no hard counter, and no infantry can do much to it. This leaves you with having to devote a lot of resources/combined arms and to be lucky to actually be able to destroy a Panther. It's going to escape if you do anyway, and mines and AT grenades are not always available/ chance/luck-based.
Guards don't button long enough, and smoke completely negates them.
Panthers require a speed nerf
10 Oct 2013, 23:16 PM
#61
Posts: 85
10 Oct 2013, 23:19 PM
#62
Posts: 44
Rostov is 3v3 and 4v4.
Just played it btw: german side had 4 elephants at the same time...I didn't have time to count the number of Panthers also plowing the map.
Awfull...
It's an awful map. If you start north side as Soviets, you might as well just /leave and save yourself the trouble.
10 Oct 2013, 23:22 PM
#63
Posts: 85
It's an awful map. If you start north side as Soviets, you might as well just /leave and save yourself the trouble.
I lost at 29 points on north side. Mainly because they broke one bridge and Panthers
11 Oct 2013, 09:00 AM
#64
Posts: 1439
It still stands that the Panther has no hard counter, and no infantry can do much to it. This leaves you with having to devote a lot of resources/combined arms and to be lucky to actually be able to destroy a Panther. It's going to escape if you do anyway, and mines and AT grenades are not always available/ chance/luck-based.
Guards don't button long enough, and smoke completely negates them.
I wouldn't go that far. Correctly handled SU-85 goes toe to toe with Panther.
11 Oct 2013, 12:52 PM
#65
Posts: 525
I wouldn't go that far. Correctly handled SU-85 goes toe to toe with Panther.
Uhmmmm,no,the only advantage the SU-85 has over the Panther is it's range,and that dissapears as soon as the SU fires its first shot
11 Oct 2013, 13:19 PM
#66
Posts: 401
It's been shown in stats and gameplay that a Panther will win both an up front shooting match on average, and outright wins with flanking.
I also do not want the Panther's base speed nerfed.
Nerf the blitz so that its speed boost doesn't stack crazily for the Panther, and just the panther, then make it so that engine damage disallows the use of, and cancels current use of blitz.
If at some point in the future after more testing, the panther is still a problem, slightly decrease the rear armor of the panther. But I'm not even suggesting that change right now since the Vet changes in the November patch will likely help in dealing with this.
I also do not want the Panther's base speed nerfed.
Nerf the blitz so that its speed boost doesn't stack crazily for the Panther, and just the panther, then make it so that engine damage disallows the use of, and cancels current use of blitz.
If at some point in the future after more testing, the panther is still a problem, slightly decrease the rear armor of the panther. But I'm not even suggesting that change right now since the Vet changes in the November patch will likely help in dealing with this.
11 Oct 2013, 14:12 PM
#67
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedBase speed is ok, imo.
However Blitzkreig on engine dmged armor is a problem throughout.
Id suggest changing it so that an engine dmged vehicle gets 50% of normal, undamaged speed, for its duration.
I think that is a reasonable compromise.
(And I dont mean compromise in a "I play Ost, dont nerf my abilities" sense, but in a sense that Vet abilities shouldnt be completely negated by secondary effects because:
A) The unit has achieved Vet, it deserves to be able to benefit from that.
B) It still costs Muni, still performs somewhat, and still allows Sov opponent who achieved an engine critical, his reward)
However Blitzkreig on engine dmged armor is a problem throughout.
Id suggest changing it so that an engine dmged vehicle gets 50% of normal, undamaged speed, for its duration.
I think that is a reasonable compromise.
(And I dont mean compromise in a "I play Ost, dont nerf my abilities" sense, but in a sense that Vet abilities shouldnt be completely negated by secondary effects because:
A) The unit has achieved Vet, it deserves to be able to benefit from that.
B) It still costs Muni, still performs somewhat, and still allows Sov opponent who achieved an engine critical, his reward)
11 Oct 2013, 17:13 PM
#68
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Uhmmmm,no,the only advantage the SU-85 has over the Panther is it's range,and that dissapears as soon as the SU fires its first shot
dont forget the su85 fires every 4.25 seconds compared to 6.7 for the panther. the panther does still win because it has 50% more hp and pens much more reliably
If at some point in the future after more testing, the panther is still a problem, slightly decrease the rear armor of the panther. But I'm not even suggesting that change right now since the Vet changes in the November patch will likely help in dealing with this.
the panthers rear armor is already incredibly weak. most tanks have atleast 50% of their front armor in the rear. panthers have 42%. the only tank with a lower ratio is the elefant. AT nades already pen the rear of a panther 89% of the time.
Base speed is ok, imo.
However Blitzkreig on engine dmged armor is a problem throughout.
Id suggest changing it so that an engine dmged vehicle gets 50% of normal, undamaged speed, for its duration.
I think that is a reasonable compromise.
engine damage reduces speed to 40%, so blitz would only give you 10% more speed. that would probably be barely noticeable and not worth the munitions.
11 Oct 2013, 18:10 PM
#69
Posts: 688
SU85 is nowhere near a clean counter to Panthers. Let's not point the discussion away.
However, I think it's been mentioned, but since the speed of the Panther is the problem, mines are the answer.
Well, in combo with AT ofc, but if a unit excels in speed, ofc. you counter should be to cut its speed!
I'm painfully aware that Panthers can be very hard to stop, but I'm not sure I'm buying the idea that there needs to be like ONE hard counter for it.
IMO it's OK that some units to take a combo of meassures to be countered. At least if it's a high tier unit as the Panther (and not such as the previous version of the HMG42)
However, I think it's been mentioned, but since the speed of the Panther is the problem, mines are the answer.
Well, in combo with AT ofc, but if a unit excels in speed, ofc. you counter should be to cut its speed!
I'm painfully aware that Panthers can be very hard to stop, but I'm not sure I'm buying the idea that there needs to be like ONE hard counter for it.
IMO it's OK that some units to take a combo of meassures to be countered. At least if it's a high tier unit as the Panther (and not such as the previous version of the HMG42)
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
11 Oct 2013, 18:25 PM
#70
Posts: 622
I'm painfully aware that Panthers can be very hard to stop, but I'm not sure I'm buying the idea that there needs to be like ONE hard counter for it.
there prob will be one, like next DLC when relic bring out a KV2 commander for us to buy
11 Oct 2013, 18:28 PM
#71
Posts: 44
I find the main issue with Panthers is that you can plink away its health until it is near death, but then it pops smoke and/or warp-speeds away before you can actually finish it off. And then it comes back later with even more Vet, becoming harder and harder to kill.
Nullist's suggestion for slowing the Panthers blitzkrieg speed when suffering from a damaged engine would help alleviate this problem. Blitzkrieg should still give the attack speed buff as normal, of course.
The other issue, with all tanks, it that there isn't any 'real' side armour in this game, which makes flanking attempts to be very hit and miss.
Nullist's suggestion for slowing the Panthers blitzkrieg speed when suffering from a damaged engine would help alleviate this problem. Blitzkrieg should still give the attack speed buff as normal, of course.
The other issue, with all tanks, it that there isn't any 'real' side armour in this game, which makes flanking attempts to be very hit and miss.
11 Oct 2013, 18:41 PM
#72
Posts: 525
Well Blitzkrieg should be an offensive and offensive only ability...
11 Oct 2013, 18:46 PM
#73
Posts: 44
Well Blitzkrieg should be an offensive and offensive only ability...
Speed boost only when driving forwards! No going back!
That could actually really work, lol
11 Oct 2013, 18:55 PM
#74
Posts: 18
Speed boost only when driving forwards! No going back!
That could actually really work, lol
+1 !!!!
11 Oct 2013, 19:26 PM
#75
Posts: 44
This is the sound I make in my head any time I warp-speed a damaged panther away from danger, lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rnw0D2AdYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rnw0D2AdYU
11 Oct 2013, 22:06 PM
#76
Posts: 2425
Permanently Bannedengine damage reduces speed to 40%, so blitz would only give you 10% more speed. that would probably be barely noticeable and not worth the munitions.
Oh, I see. I mistakenly and uninformedly estimated it at about 20% of normal speed...
Then yeah, I amend my suggestion to 75% of normal speed (or 80% for a round number, and effective double of engine dmg speed)
11 Oct 2013, 23:03 PM
#77
Posts: 182
IMO damaged engine blitzkreig tanks really need to not be able to gain the speed buff. It really doesn't make much sense and is kind of an easy mode cop-out for the german player at times (this combined with smoke can be really frustrating).
11 Oct 2013, 23:32 PM
#78
Posts: 1439
Uhmmmm,no,the only advantage the SU-85 has over the Panther is it's range,and that dissapears as soon as the SU fires its first shot
I'm not talking about advantages. I am saying that I still can handle Panthers using supported SU-85.
12 Oct 2013, 00:48 AM
#79
Posts: 85
I find the main issue with Panthers is that you can plink away its health until it is near death, but then it pops smoke and/or warp-speeds away before you can actually finish it off. And then it comes back later with even more Vet, becoming harder and harder to kill.
This. This was my motivation to start this thread.
13 Oct 2013, 04:44 AM
#80
Posts: 829
the panthers rear armor is already incredibly weak. most tanks have atleast 50% of their front armor in the rear. panthers have 42%. the only tank with a lower ratio is the elefant. AT nades already pen the rear of a panther 89% of the time.
True, but you will only ever see Panthers ass while playing some noob.
Biggest problem is Panther is incredibly hard to finish of. After costly battle if you are Soviet player, it will just blitz away or do a Houdini act (smoke) even if you manage to see its ass.
Getting more Vet every engagement, and becoming more and more of an issue.
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