Soviet General Faction Changes - New cmdr mod 5.0

occasionally they could bring back the bundle pack, allowing them to upgrade both rpg nades and molotovs.
That upgrade that got removed after yet another axis whining campaign.

Imo the AT grenade and Molotov shouldn't be side-tech at all. It punishes the player for fielding Conscripts in small numbers. That flies in the face of encouraging mixed builds over spam.

I'd either:

• Lock them behind T2.

• Make them a 30 munition upgrade on the Conscript squad itself.

• Remove the Penal PTRS and make Molotovs/AT grenades unlocked automatically at the start.

These 7-person conscripts and a 20% increase in experience are relevant only for this ridiculous remote commander, who has disabled any retreat. It is available in mode.
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Imo the AT grenade and Molotov shouldn't be side-tech at all. It punishes the player for fielding Conscripts in small numbers. That flies in the face of encouraging mixed builds over spam.

I'd either:

• Lock them behind T2.

• Make them a 30 munition upgrade on the Conscript squad itself.

• Remove the Penal PTRS and make Molotovs/AT grenades unlocked automatically at the start.

I recall miragefla wanted to give penals at grenades before somebody came up with the ptrs idea Kappa

Out-there idea.

What if Conscripts were a 6 man unit, that automatically gained +1 man at each tech building?

So 6 to start. If you build all 4 buildings, 10 man squad. No change to pop cap. No change to slots. Have them be chaff, low exp for enemy squads killing, but able to charge with reckless abandon.

Problem with cons lay in area that they don't have good synergy with other units. If you play through cons it means only 2 thing: you choose ppsh doc or you go to t2. In theory, cons must enhance your gameplay through team weapons...but in reality we have useless maxim and T2 now uses only for zis and mortar. Ability to merge is good, but don't forget that cons get only weapons, not stats of this unit. Merge usefull only for save your unit from close death or reveal your zis. But for long term no one call guards to merge them with cons.
IMO 7 cons squad is very strange upgrade (i think we will see problems with cover mechanic, when fat Yuriy don't find place and all squad will be pinned). You will get more survival from arty and AOE, but only in t4. One important thing - you must survive to T4 using cons and broken t2. I'll prefer that cons will become cheaper to cost and reinforce with every tier and get maximum advantage in T4, rather trying to survive until i get T4.
I think, if we replace molotov with regular frag nade and increase range of snare we will get more strong unit (and delete Hoora from them). And we also must find place for penals, because in current state, penals looks more like core infantry than cons. Penals must be specialists, not core infantry.

If we think about penals we could return to their old state - flamethrowers. Make them squad with flames and satchels and mosins instead svt (adn maybe 1 or 2 ppshs). Make them costs 240 as cons squad (and tune their stats accordingly). Then you will get reason to merge cons with them. And their 2-nd instance as tank hunters with ptrs, mines and ability to make skillshot like brit sniper (farewell sneaky AT-satchel).

I think if oorah gave nearby units a bonus to cooldown or ROF or something we could see them a bit more useful. Having them act like a small, 10 sec mini officer. Increased ROF or cooldown would help both penals and maxims and even other cons.i do like the 7th man though, it really helps their role of out lasting and recrewing (and merging) but their mid game is still lacking.

I still maintain that cons aren't worth it because they have been so bad fir so long that their alternatives had to be viable without aby conscripts at all.

Soviet players can brings guards and penals and having both totally removes the need for conscripts. All that conscripts could do now is save manpower but make your good infantry worse, and build sandbags.

That utility does not justify spending manpower and fuel to unlock their grenades. Because the alternatives stand totally on their own conscripts being 'utility support' counts for basically nothing. Soviets even without that utility from conscripts don't lack anything. At best they're a 240mp sandbag engineer.


Penals and Guards should have been spevialist squads so that consctipts can be a generalist.

If guards had no ptrs and terrible close range damage, conscripts could bring AT grenades and have a non doc pair of PTRS rifles, or a couple of nin doc PPSH for close range screening

If penals brought ppsh guns and satchels cons could have been your mid range generalist with a few SVTs as an unlock and build cover for dedicated AT penals using conscrpipt style triple SVT


But no. Consctipts are apparently supposed to have utility at everything BUT combat. Even with 7 men their cost just isn't worth it, total, compared to a guard squad.

If we could adapt conscripts with some mediocre weapon upgrades they would still be sub par but they would actually be versatile. Their utility could be plugging the gaps in your commander based lineup, even if they don't excell at anything. But apparently that's allowing them weapons and that's some sort of sin, even if it's only a couple of mediocre ones.

In the end, so long as you can build your army out of penals, guards and AT guns conscripts are still not worth the side tech.

...
Penals and Guards should have been spevialist squads so that consctipts can be a generalist.
...

I agree lets nerf Guards and Penal and conscript will find their spot.

I agree lets nerf Guards and Penal and conscript will find their spot.

That's not how it works. Adjusting them to be better at one role and less generally good at anything isn't a nerf, just an adjustment.

Conscripts still need a buff. Guards with no AT rifles would drop less guns but probably need their mosin damage adjusting. A CQC penal squad would probably need oorah back and a price drop, as well as a more expensive but impactful AT package.

It's not as easy as nerfing two squads because those two squads are curtently the reason soviets are able to compete at all



Or we could keep trying to find gimmicks for cons and call it 'utility', which is a fancy way of saying none-combat-duties. 7 man sandbag building is something at least.

That's not how it works. Adjusting them to be better at one role and less generally good at anything isn't a nerf, just an adjustment.

Conscripts still need a buff. Guards with no AT rifles would drop less guns but probably need their mosin damage adjusting. A CQC penal squad would probably need oorah back and a price drop, as well as a more expensive but impactful AT package.

It's not as easy as nerfing two squads because those two squads are curtently the reason soviets are able to compete at all



Or we could keep trying to find gimmicks for cons and call it 'utility', which is a fancy way of saying none-combat-duties. 7 man sandbag building is something at least.

Or combine conscripts and penal troops, and you will not need to justify the existence, invent the role of the second main infantry unit at the start of the game. Which in reality were 1% of all soldiers. Combined conscripts-penal troops - the main infantry/ support unit. Guardsmen - ranged / anti-tank unit. Shock troops - CQC assault unit.

That's not how it works. ...

Actually that is how it works.

By nerfing Penal and Guards one can also nerf VG and thus not have to buff Ostheer.

Patch after patch the majority of infatry have received buff because Penals and VG are OP (compared to the benchmark grenadiers).

Actually that is how it works.

By nerfing Penal and Guards one can also nerf VG and thus not have to buff Ostheer.

Patch after patch the majority of infatry have received buff because Penals and VG are OP (compared to the benchmark grenadiers).

And that would in turn mean having to nerf rifles, sections, paratroopers, most assault infantry, obers...

If your problem is that infantry play makes using grenadiers hard then, sorry buddy, but everything in that infantry matchup is pretty well matched up right now.

Changing literally eveything BUT grenadiers purely because you want them to be a benchmark is a dumb approach that would require retooling most of the game to reduce the cost, firepower and utility of every other mainline and elite infantry.

Greandiers are the benchmark? In what? A cons vs grens matchup that never happens since conscripts are fantasy creatures from enemy at the gates with little to no combat capabilities and everyone uses penals?

And no I’m not joking, just look at Volksgrenadiers, young boys and old men, and how they perform in comparison.

Vipper, you are way off. Think about it, if tomorrow you nerfed Volks, rifles, sections and buffed cons to match the grenadiers benchmark, everyone would crutch on call in infantry. Panzerfusiliers, pathfinders, assault engineers etc.

I think the Conscript rework, while interesting, is a bit too clunky.
My proposal for Conscript changes:

To make the conscripts more combat effective, and to compensate for their single weapon slot, a single "squad leader" SVT may be added as a starting slot weapon. This makes conscripts ever so slightly better at min 0, but not in a way that they would ever compete with Penals. At vet 3, conscripts gain a stat bonus when in cover, similar to Tommies and Osttruppen.

The new, revised, Mobilized Reserves upgrade to complement the above changes should do the following:
+ Reduce reinforce cost (as-is) and perhaps reinforce time
+ Improve veterancy gain (as-is)
+ Does not add another man
+ Does not utilize a weapon slot
+ Any fuel/manpower reductions to Conscript grenades should be reassigned here

This would accomplish the following:
+ Better min 0 performance, slightly more competitive choice
+ Better late-game scaling that offers something other Soviet units don't have
+ Faster scaling to the new Vet bonuses
+ Global upgrade that is straightforward
+ Still bleeds less
+ Still can loot weapons
+ SVT40s for Conscripts that don't overlap with Penals for I M M E R S I O N

And that would in turn mean having to nerf rifles, sections, paratroopers, most assault infantry, obers...

If your problem is that infantry play makes using grenadiers hard then, sorry buddy, but everything in that infantry matchup is pretty well matched up right now.

Changing literally eveything BUT grenadiers purely because you want them to be a benchmark is a dumb approach that would require retooling most of the game to reduce the cost, firepower and utility of every other mainline and elite infantry.

Not really:
Actually USF and UKF had to be buffed exactaly because VG and Panl are OP.

And no infatry matchup are hardly pretty well matched, Ostheer are simply UP and even devm couldn't make them work.

Actually Relic made grenadier the benchmark not me.

Greandiers are the benchmark? In what? A cons vs grens matchup that never happens since conscripts are fantasy creatures from enemy at the gates with little to no combat capabilities and everyone uses penals?

And no I’m not joking, just look at Volksgrenadiers, young boys and old men, and how they perform in comparison.

Vipper, you are way off. Think about it, if tomorrow you nerfed Volks, rifles, sections and buffed cons to match the grenadiers benchmark, everyone would crutch on call in infantry. Panzerfusiliers, pathfinders, assault engineers etc.

You are confusing volksgrenadeirs with volkstrumm.

Pls read my post and do not put words in my mouth. I said nerf Penal and VG not riflemen and Sections. And there allot of people already think that riflemen are UP.

And again how do you know if a unit is UP or OP if you do not have something to compare it with?

And no I’m not joking, just look at Volksgrenadiers, young boys and old men, and how they perform in comparison.

You are confusing Volksgrenadiers with Volkssturm.

I agree lets nerf Guards and Penal and conscript will find their spot.

If Penals, Guards, Shock Troops, Maxim and DSHK are removed entirely, then conscripts
will find their spot. You only need to make them the only option.

Same for tournaments - Soviet is seen as the most competitive, solution is to nerf them
until they no longer are, then people will play UKF and USF again in tournaments.

How about an upgrade that gives them +2 models, but removes
half their guns? (4 mosins, 8 models). Also takes a weapon slot.
Grens could then have +2 models and Volks gain +1 models and could have +1 (2) LMG
and fire 2x rifle grenades and +1 (3) STG44, restoring balance.

Joking aside, all this bitching will never go away until every faction is 6 man infantry,
same stats, same abilities, same commanders, same units, but reskinned.
T34/85, Sherman E8 being non-commander standard, with same cost and stats as Panther, etc
(but same pop cost, too)

That way, who can say it's not balanced?