Soviet General Faction Changes - New cmdr mod 5.0

Back on the topic of conscripts, can we please actually TRY giving them weapon upgrades, less accuracy bonuses and a 2nd weapon slot?

They don't need to be good upgrades, but letting them pick from a choice of three small, cheap packs lets them be versatile (the utility everyone seems to think is all they should be good for) without making them dominate.

A couple of SVT, a couple of PPSH or a pair of PTRS.

The doctrinal variants are strictly superior and come with more firepower so you can leave them more or less as is.

Letting them synergise with your commander and build with a variety of small upgrade options could go a long way to making the huge sidegrade costs more bearable.

I’d say they should start with 2 SVTs, to help out in the early game where they get slaughtered, alongside a 1-3% reduction in target size. Upgrades should be a stock 60 munition 4 SVT upgrade at T3 or T4, and 2 svt 2 ppsh from the doctrine, as well as tank hunters 2 svts 2 ptrs. Final piece to the puzzle would be a 5-10% cover bonus to rate of fire.

If we want see cons as utility unit, i think we must consider how we can make them good with combine of other soviet infantry. Right now, if you play through cons (and don't use maxim) you have only one enough strong option - 2 CE with flames and 4 cons squads. Where cons uses their Merge ability to save dps from CE flames. This tactics works on early game.
What if cons will have ability to "get" some boosts from choosen nearby squad and link with that squad (i think automerge every lost member of chhosen squad)? As example:
1. If we choose CE as pair to cons, that cons squad could build sandbags much more faster (30 or 50%) or get improved version of conbag, where another side don't get cover bonus, or ability to plant mines.
2. If we choose penal squad, cons get ability that increase their ROF and regular satchel.
3. If we choose quards, ability hit the dirt with same bonuses as guards (maybe little weaker version) and nades.
4. If choose shocks, they have frag grens and more suppresion resistance.

Link will be works when cons squad and choosen nearbe to each other. It will prevent abusing abilities when you activate "Hoora". And also link will be broken if choosen die or retreat. Then we will get "utility" cons, that weak by themselves, but strong with combine with other infantry. Suc method will also show SU as combine arms faction (as it was intended be Relic).

"Stop putting words in my mouth". I never said I am assuming this approach is gonna work for sure and solve all problems. I only said that this approach is much less time consuming than adjusting over half of the game's balance. The resources to do that are not available anymore. At this stage of the game's development, if a band-aid fix might work well enough, it is very much preferable to explore that option rather than having to adjust countless unit stats in order to make a few units work (which again would be nigh impossible with the current resources).

I am not putting words in your mouth.

If the change does not solves the problem it is not "much less time consuming" actually it is more time consuming because the resources are spent and the problem persists.

Yet "in this stage of the game", the game has 5 new commander released while it continues to go thru new changes that redesigning factions continuously, so no I don't by the argument that there not enough resources.

If one does not have enough resources one uses solution tested and proven, one does not ventures in uncharted water.

I’d say they should start with 2 SVTs, to help out in the early game where they get slaughtered, alongside a 1-3% reduction in target size. Upgrades should be a stock 60 munition 4 SVT upgrade at T3 or T4, and 2 svt 2 ppsh from the doctrine, as well as tank hunters 2 svts 2 ptrs. Final piece to the puzzle would be a 5-10% cover bonus to rate of fire.

so u want cheaper penal ?

so u want cheaper penal ?

What other weapon aside from the svt is there? Mosins are garbage, unless they give them guards mosins.

What other weapon aside from the svt is there? Mosins are garbage, unless they give them guards mosins.

3 guard mossin global upgrade would be fine already after tier 4

I’d say they should start with 2 SVTs, to help out in the early game where they get slaughtered, alongside a 1-3% reduction in target size. Upgrades should be a stock 60 munition 4 SVT upgrade at T3 or T4, and 2 svt 2 ppsh from the doctrine, as well as tank hunters 2 svts 2 ptrs. Final piece to the puzzle would be a 5-10% cover bonus to rate of fire.

3 guard mossin global upgrade would be fine already after tier 4

Regardless of what happens in Te/T4, there needs to be a buff to the stock unit. Opening with cons in any capacity is basically self sabotage.

I can’t tell if you agree with me or you think I’m an idiot.

Regardless of what happens in Te/T4, there needs to be a buff to the stock unit. Opening with cons in any capacity is basically self sabotage.




I can’t tell if you agree with me or you think I’m an idiot.

I think you are trolling, or you are completely unaware, what you are asking is for an even better, Tier 0, cheaper, more durable, much higher late game dps penals with somewhat less raw starting power.

Guys, this game have 5 years old, lets be real, you can't propose a radical change. Stop waisting your time, Relic will only allow small buffs/nerfs and tiny changes.
So, I loved all the proposed changes, even the conscripts one, at the beggining I though that would not be enough, but it actually help.

Regardless of what happens in Te/T4, there needs to be a buff to the stock unit. Opening with cons in any capacity is basically self sabotage.

Is it? They're cheap, they build fast, they beat Grens at short range and they've got stock Sprint against HMGs.

A lot of the top players build them against Ost even if they go T1.

To my previous post: to reward player for using cons we could make that squad that get merging from cons can be "re-reinforce".
Example:
The cost 1 cons to reinforce - 20 MP. The cost to reinforce 1 stromtrooper - 30 MP. I could use reinforce to convert this 1 con to stormtrooper,i paid difference between cost of 1 storm and 1 cons: 30-20=10MP. Now where the point. If we use approach that moders get us in this decision (where you can get upgrade for 7-th man and decreased price for reinforce, 17MP). But costs to reinforce in formula will be "30-23",where 20+(20-17)=23.
Because when you merging squad - cons get only weapon, but not stats of initial unit. Such approach could escape this situation, if player will want it.
And in the lategame game will be reward player for using cons, in T4 you can use upgraded cons to get little price reduction to reinforce your units (3mp per member). But to use this tecnique you must use cons.

I think you are trolling, or you are completely unaware, what you are asking is for an even better, Tier 0, cheaper, more durable, much higher late game dps penals with somewhat less raw starting power.

And yet the 3 svt conscripts from the new commander test mod don’t even come close to matching the firepower of penals, or do I need to remind you what the penals vet 1 ability is?

Regardless, 2 svts are not gonna turn cons into penals-lite or an op starting unit. Ideally I’d love to see them take up the anti tank role from the penals with the ptrs package, but that’s another discussion. And no, I’m not asking for an op T0 unit, I’m asking for the chance to have a reason to build a conscript squad early on instead of just spamming penals and guards.

Is it? They're cheap, they build fast, they beat Grens at short range and they've got stock Sprint against HMGs.

A lot of the top players build them against Ost even if they go T1.

Only recent one I remember is yesterday’ propagandacast when Jove built 4 cons to start. By minute 9 his opponent had both fuel points and only 2 out of 4 cons were veteran 1.

Theoretically they can work, but especially with panzergrenadiers going to the HQ and stormtroopers being so prevalent, starting with cons isn’t advisable.

And yet the 3 svt conscripts from the new commander test mod don’t even come close to matching the firepower of penals, or do I need to remind you what the penals vet 1 ability is?

Regardless, 2 svts are not gonna turn cons into penals-lite or an op starting unit. Ideally I’d love to see them take up the anti tank role from the penals with the ptrs package, but that’s another discussion. And no, I’m not asking for an op T0 unit, I’m asking for the chance to have a reason to build a conscript squad early on instead of just spamming penals and guards.

"I’d say they should start with 2 SVTs, to help out in the early game where they get slaughtered, alongside a 1-3% reduction in target size. Upgrades should be a stock 60 munition 4 SVT upgrade at T3 or T4"

"I’d say they should start with 2 SVTs, to help out in the early game where they get slaughtered, alongside a 1-3% reduction in target size. Upgrades should be a stock 60 munition 4 SVT upgrade at T3 or T4"

If you think 2 SVTs can turn conscripts into an op T0 unit or 4 svtsn can turn conscripts into an op lategame unit, then I don’t know what to tell you.

If you think 2 SVTs can turn conscripts into an op T0 unit or 4 svtsn can turn conscripts into an op lategame unit, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Since we're back on Conscripts, I'll just repost this:

I think the Conscript rework, while interesting, is a bit too clunky.
My proposal for Conscript changes:

To make the conscripts more combat effective, and to compensate for their single weapon slot, a single "squad leader" SVT may be added as a starting slot weapon. This makes conscripts ever so slightly better at min 0, but not in a way that they would ever compete with Penals. At vet 3, conscripts gain a stat bonus when in cover, similar to Tommies and Osttruppen.

The new, revised, Mobilized Reserves upgrade to complement the above changes should do the following:
+ Reduce reinforce cost (as-is) and perhaps reinforce time
+ Improve veterancy gain (as-is)
+ Does not add another man
+ Does not utilize a weapon slot
+ Any fuel/manpower reductions to Conscript grenades should be reassigned here

This would accomplish the following:
+ Better min 0 performance, slightly more competitive choice
+ Better late-game scaling that offers something other Soviet units don't have
+ Faster scaling to the new Vet bonuses
+ Global upgrade that is straightforward
+ Still bleeds less
+ Still can loot weapons
+ SVT40s for Conscripts that don't overlap with Penals for I M M E R S I O N

I still don't condone cover bonuses for Conscripts.

It works for Ostruppen because they have an LMG. It works for Tommies because they have a choice of LMGs.

Conscripts don't. They have oorah and a close range molotov. Guards exist if you want to use cover and be stationary already.

Until they are able to turn utility into combat utility by being better at something - AT, cqc, moving accuracy - the side grade costs will never make one or two cons worth the sane as one or two guards.

I still don't condone cover bonuses for Conscripts.

It works for Ostruppen because they have an LMG. It works for Tommies because they have a choice of LMGs.

Conscripts don't. They have oorah and a close range molotov. Guards exist if you want to use cover and be stationary already.

Until they are able to turn utility into combat utility by being better at something - AT, cqc, moving accuracy - the side grade costs will never make one or two cons worth the sane as one or two guards.

As far as I am aware, osttruppen cover bonus applies exclusively to their rifles, LMG has 50% of regular LMG accuracy/DPS and does NOT benefit from cover accuracy bonus.

Also, conscripts have in their very description that they are most effective from cover, so cover bonus makes most sense for them.