Raketen Cloaking and its justification.
Posts: 48
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
- cloak (no way to spot other than proximity or recon plane AFAIK)
- ability to move while cloaked
- ability to retreat if spotted or caught with pants down
When you play OKW you hate Rak because of how susceptible it is to AoE (tight crew formation) and to small arms fire (short range).
When you play against OKW you hate Rak because reasons stated above.
In my personal opinion there is no reason for Rak to be able to move when cloaked.
OKW mains will come here ask for a buff "to compensate" for removal of this ability.
I bet there will be talk about how Rak unlike other AT guns doesn't provide green cover, but that cover bonus is buggy as hell and works only from certain angles to AT gun. IIRC this behavior was researched by Elchino. So in fact Rak's low survivability to small arms comes only from exposure to them because of short range.
Posts: 956
+ better formation is a no- brainer one way or another
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
You are correct - the problem not just in one feature, but in combination of three:
- cloak (no way to spot other than proximity or recon plane AFAIK)
- ability to move while cloaked
- ability to retreat if spotted or caught with pants down
When you play OKW you hate Rak because of how susceptible it is to AoE (tight crew formation) and to small arms fire (short range).
When you play against OKW you hate Rak because reasons stated above.
In my personal opinion there is no reason for Rak to be able to move when cloaked.
OKW mains will come here ask for a buff "to compensate" for removal of this ability.
I bet there will be talk about how Rak unlike other AT guns doesn't provide green cover, but that cover bonus is buggy as hell and works only from certain angles to AT gun. IIRC this behavior was researched by Elchino. So in fact Rak's low survivability to small arms comes only from exposure to them because of short range.
Actually Rak's dies to easily to both small arm and explosions since the crew is to close together.
About the ATG shields:
The cover might only work occasionally but I have seen tank shots colliding with the shield and thus protecting the crew.
Posts: 1660
You are correct - the problem not just in one feature, but in combination of three:
- cloak (no way to spot other than proximity or recon plane AFAIK)
- ability to move while cloaked
- ability to retreat if spotted or caught with pants down
When you play OKW you hate Rak because of how susceptible it is to AoE (tight crew formation) and to small arms fire (short range).
When you play against OKW you hate Rak because reasons stated above.
In my personal opinion there is no reason for Rak to be able to move when cloaked.
OKW mains will come here ask for a buff "to compensate" for removal of this ability.
I bet there will be talk about how Rak unlike other AT guns doesn't provide green cover, but that cover bonus is buggy as hell and works only from certain angles to AT gun. IIRC this behavior was researched by Elchino. So in fact Rak's low survivability to small arms comes only from exposure to them because of short range.
"In my personal opinion there is no reason for Rak to be able to move when cloaked.
OKW mains will come here ask for a buff "to compensate" for removal of this ability."
No, there's no need whatsoever.
I also propose to replace the rocket with potatoes that do 20 damage and have 5 penetration because raketen is clearly known to be super Opie Opie.
"So in fact Rak's low survivability to small arms comes only from exposure to them because of short range."
It comes from the gun crew formation being ultra tight.
Posts: 3260
It'd be way more user friendly if the gun passively cloaked itself when stationary and out of combat for a few moments.
Compensate with a wider arc of fire given this is meant to also be OKW's LV counter.
Posts: 4474
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
Posts: 264
It should be like the Goliath. It only stealths in cover, maybe it can still move.
But if we're making the rak ANY better, I'd say it can't move while stealthed. It moves decently fast, and I feel in large games the Rak-pack needs 3-4 and you're just obliterating allied tanks and it's sort of how you deal w/ them as OKW until you get a Panther out? Pz4 can slug it, but ideally you want some hard TD. JP4 is nice, but you need a good infantry killer.
So you build the rak pack. Listen Raks are pack animals, they need to form close bonds with one another to effectively fight. The form a family use, it's a beautiful thing to watch a Rak pack hunt, even if they are dispeciable creatures. I think we can all agree, nobody wants them.
Posts: 3260
I'd happily ditch moving cloak in exchange for reliability buffs. There's a good unit in the Raketenwerfer somewhere, but at the moment it's frustrating for everyone.
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
To me you can make the Rak a better AT gun if you make it play by AT gun rules
Posts: 1660
If you make Raks need cover to stealth, they'll hit that cover whenever they fire scatter shots. That's why they cloak in the open in the first place.
I'd happily ditch moving cloak in exchange for reliability buffs. There's a good unit in the Raketenwerfer somewhere, but at the moment it's frustrating for everyone.
Nothing can be done, the profile of the unit will always cause reliability issues.
Posts: 264
This also may come with removing it's ability to retreat.
-Moving Breaks Stealth
-Can't Retreat
-Increase firing arc
-Decrease setup time
-spread the crew out/5th man
The only reason raks make it to the late game is the stealth mechanic, they die super easy to anything. So you need to do something to help it's survivability if we nerf how useful it's stealth/retreat is.
Posts: 3260
Nothing can be done, the profile of the unit will always cause reliability issues.
I'm talking a wider firing arc and/or better accuracy here. Maybe something like the 6-pounder's accuracy bonus vs light vehicles, or a Vet 0 first strike bonus.
Posts: 1660
I'm talking a wider firing arc and/or better accuracy here. Maybe something like the 6-pounder's accuracy bonus vs light vehicles, or a Vet 0 first strike bonus.
Ok, but it will still hit the ground the moment there's cover or minimal elevation. Such thing can't be fixed.
Posts: 264
Ok, but it will still hit the ground the moment there's cover or minimal elevation. Such thing can't be fixed.
Crew props it up on a box first. SOLVED.
Posts: 1660
But again, at this state, Cloaketen is staying this way.
Posts: 264
It performs very well when I steal them as the soviets ,6 man crew seems OP, but maybe 5 would spread them enough that indirect fire isnt a problem ,but you'll want to run if you see small arms coming your way.
Posts: 4474
Posts: 3260
Ok, but it will still hit the ground the moment there's cover or minimal elevation. Such thing can't be fixed.
It can be mitigated by better accuracy though. Accuracy shots that roll a hit pass through obstacles. It's scattershots that hit objects.
take the pak 40 at gun , call it pak 38, lower pen, add first strike bonus and soviet stealth, done fixed rakt
If anything, the Soviet AT Gun stealth is even more frustrating to use than the Raketenwerfer stealth.
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