Grenadier Vet 1 and Medkits

With exception of the German infantry doctrine squad leader upgrade, I rarely see grenadier medkits used. Neither in tournament replays nor in matches I play. I believe this to be due to several factors. Impractical forward reinforcement, small squad sizes and cost per use.

251 halftracks are not used for forward reinforcement due to the timing they arrive, the ability to take map control is more important than holding ground thus either the offensive flamethrower upgrade is taken or a 222 is purchased instead.

The small squad size means that grenadiers are typically pulled back to base post engagement for reinforcement after dropping 2 models, as a result you rarely have low HP grenadiers with a large portion of the squad intact ready to be healed and in the field. This is tied to the third point:

Cost. Despite the buff to 15 munitions per use and the ability to self heal, the potential HP healed per use is rather low due to the small squad issue and thus not cost efffective. The exceptions being on the 6 man ostruppen squads or the 5 man assault grenadier squads.



My suggestion:

Make medkits available from vet 0, but increase cost to 20 munitions, increase cooldown to 1 minute and make self targetable only.

Change vet 1 to give "increased medical training"
Reduce medical kit cost to 5 munitions and allow it to be used on allied squads.


The benefits of these changes are thus:
Limited healing option without a bunker or vet allows grens to stay on the field a little easier against rifles and penals early game but the cost of 20 munitions and long cooldown prohibits overuse.

The reduced cost of 5 munitions at vet 1 makes medical kits far more attractive a purchase but the long cooldown still limits their overuse and the vet restricts their timing to the light vehicle phase.

I think a lot people just forget about this ability, and that you can use it for self heal.

It is super worth it if a squad is on low health but has full squad size. But so many times in match casts I see people just retreating their vetted low health squads as OST

Simply replace healing kit with something useful, like a fragmentation grande.

Pioneer can keep them...

People forgetting about it doesn't make it bad. Halftracks are only rarely used as reinforcement in 1v1, they're prolific in 2v2 and up from decent Ost players.

5mu is also sort of ridiculous. Nothing is that cheap any more. Even Oorah costs more than that now.

People forgetting about it doesn't make it bad. Halftracks are only rarely used as reinforcement in 1v1, they're prolific in 2v2 and up from decent Ost players.

5mu is also sort of ridiculous. Nothing is that cheap any more. Even Oorah costs more than that now.

I don't think people forget about it. I think people weigh the cost of healing a small squad, weigh the risk of trying to keep a small squad with a reduced model count on the field and elect instead to retreat and heal via med bunker.

5 munition cost allows it to keep a small munitions bleed but be cost effective enough to be worth using on the small squads-although 10 munitions could still allow it to be decent. If it were available on squads that it would have greater benefit to such as guards/shocks/Pfusiliers the cost would need to be higher.

I read 5 muni less at vet 1 first.

5 muni for med kits is far too low.


I think med kits are fine personally, I'd like a price reduction to 10 muni at vet 3 tho.

I'd either make them free, or make them an aura heal like Infantry Sections.

The current ability just isn't used.

I want 251 upgrade to medic HT.....or give Grenadines medic pack upgrade like UKF infantry？

The Medic Pack is the UKF primary option because their medic 'bunker' is 250mp, arrives only after teching and also buying an engineer squad, and using that squad for ages to build a forward assembly in your base.

The Ost HT is a lot more durable than the USF ambulance to become a mass healing point, though.

The "Impractical forward reinforcement" problem you mention is why I suggested the Forward Supply Station for the new Strategic Reserves doctrine.

Given a Forward Retreat Point similar to the Soviet Airborne would solve that problem.

As for the Grenadiers themselves you gave me the idea of them "earning" a 5th man upon Vet 1 similar to the USF REs.

Edit: Perhaps vet 1 5th man would be a tad too unbalanced, so maybe move it to vet 2 or 3.

The Medic Pack is the UKF primary option because their medic 'bunker' is 250mp, arrives only after teching and also buying an engineer squad, and using that squad for ages to build a forward assembly in your base.

The Ost HT is a lot more durable than the USF ambulance to become a mass healing point, though.

Realistically the forward assembly is going to be available roughly around the time that a medic bunker for ostheer goes up. Yes, it costs 100 more manpower(offset by Ostheer more expensive tech), but often Royal engineers are the 5th or even 4th squad and its around that time when ostheer is going to be building its medic bunker.

People don't do this because you already have heals on 3/4s of your infantry at that point. And even if one concedes that the british forward assembly is an inferior healing platform to the ostheer bunker(its not really), the UKF medkits are substantially better than the ostheer medkits:
They don't require vet, they only need a one time investment and then are free every subsequent use, they are an AOE heal and they don't require the squad to take 10 seconds to apply the bandages on the heal target.
Given these advantages, reducing the medkit cost for grens doesn't seem like such a problem.


Ambulance is not a great comparison as it costs 1/3 the fuel and actually can heal unlike the 251.


I will concede that soviets have the poorest selection of healing option(s) and could probably use an additional source.

If you compare Ostheer with factions aside from UKF, you will see Ostheer's healing options are already quite luxurious.

At best, I would make the med kits an instant ability (the healing rate is already quite slow) and give a cost reduction to 10 muni at vet 3 (a point at which med kits have lower value).

I don't think people forget about it. I think people weigh the cost of healing a small squad, weigh the risk of trying to keep a small squad with a reduced model count on the field and elect instead to retreat and heal via med bunker.

5 munition cost allows it to keep a small munitions bleed but be cost effective enough to be worth using on the small squads-although 10 munitions could still allow it to be decent. If it were available on squads that it would have greater benefit to such as guards/shocks/Pfusiliers the cost would need to be higher.

You don't use it on a squad that's beat up and missing a model you use it on a squad that is beat up and not missing models. It means that squad that just took a near miss from that mortar doesn't have to fall back, or that green cover MG that is holding your flank doesn't need to leave a hole or that AT gun that CAN'T retreat and just took the splash of a sherman HE is still ready for when it comes back.
5mu to heal any squad anywhere on the map is Ludacris. Taking damage should be impactful and 5mu certainly is not. You could heal 4 squads for the same price the Soviet pay to run and yell once, you would need to heal 5 times in order to cost as much as the new DIRT cheap pgren g43. 5 squads... That's not muni bleed, that's a joke.

If you compare Ostheer with factions aside from UKF, you will see Ostheer's healing options are already quite luxurious.

At best, I would make the med kits an instant ability (the healing rate is already quite slow) and give a cost reduction to 10 muni at vet 3.

10 could be fair-when compared to medical kits from sturmpios, 3 aoe heals at 45 munitions vs 4.5 single target heals. I wouldn't mind seeing sturmpios get a vet boost that cuts the cost of those kits either though, as again infantry sections get unlimited aoe heals for 40 munitions per squad.

i happen to use it quite frequently

it's particularly useful to patch up mg42s, mortars, paks and snipers on the frontline

but only recently i found out that you can use it to self-heal units

and i also like OP's idea

The whole skill is not needed imo. It is often better to retreat a low hp squad and save the ammo (I don't even know the cost of the med kit since I never used it) for the MG42s or Tellermines. Ostheer is too ammunition-starved to have me use it.

I use it from time to time, but only when the squad is at 4 men (or 5-6 for ostruppen). I think the problem is even if you self heal a 3 man grenadier squad, that squad isn't going to be beating any real infantry squad coming fresh off your opponets base healing. It just isn't worth the munitions if it's a guaranteed loss.

I use it from time to time, but only when the squad is at 4 men (or 5-6 for ostruppen). I think the problem is even if you self heal a 3 man grenadier squad, that squad isn't going to be beating any real infantry squad coming fresh off your opponets base healing. It just isn't worth the munitions if it's a guaranteed loss.

That's why you don't use it on a squad that's 3 models... It's like laying mines in your base as far as munitions effeciency goes.
It's not a use at every chance kind of ability but it's certainly useful.

That's why you don't use it on a squad that's 3 models... It's like laying mines in your base as far as munitions effeciency goes.
It's not a use at every chance kind of ability but it's certainly useful.

That's the point. But how frequently do you get 4 men surviving a full engagement. Not a whole lot.

That's the point. But how frequently do you get 4 men surviving a full engagement. Not a whole lot.

But it does happen and this ability allows them to stay on the front when it does. It's particularly useful against white phosphorus attacks on MG positions.