Feedback for New Commander mod 4.0 - OST core changes

The m10 has faster speed, a turret, a bit more health, 0.75 moving acc and I believe HVAP too. Way better than a Stug.

The M10 has faster speed and a moveable turret, thats right, but this was about surviability which dind't get boosted by that.

Although you may think it can be a flanking tank because of its speed you will be quickly convinced to use it otherwise if you try. Range 50 and too slow rotating turret define its role at the same spot as Stug G. In most cases you will stop it to shoot, so the 0.75 moving accuracy isn't that great deal for a ranged TD, its way better for flanking tanks or infantry support tanks like the Sherman.

So M10 and Stug G will engage enemy tanks frontally in most cases. M10 has same health as Stug (its the Stug J that has slightly less health) higher size (22 to now 17) less armor and less penetration (at Vet 1 you can pay ressources for HVAP to get more penetration) but a slightly higher ROF. All together: In spite of beeing doctrinal and beeing bind to USF T4 tech M10 will loose this fight versus nondoctrinal T3 Stug.

For USF this doesn't even matter because there is no reason to take a M10 over a Jackson which is in the same tech and can do its job better from a greater range, especially if M10 looses to Stug (so the M10 is in a far worse spot than Stug was). But it could be important for USF, because there this tank could be useful actually it it gets a little bit of care.

It has the same requirements for vet 1-3 as the Ostheer Tiger afaik, which isn't too hard to get to vet 3. Might need a small adjustment (-10% or something) but nothing major. The vet 4 and vet 5 requirements are really low so once it finally hits vet 3 it should get to vet 4-5 really quickly.

That shouldn't be true.
I don't know the exact numbers but the requirements for OKW Tiger should be something like:
100 / 200 / 300 / 320 / 350

Excuse me but how often do you see vet3 Tiger tank? And let's assume you will get vet5 Tiger, do you really think you would use the tank buff ability and reduce to combat performance of the best unit you have on field? The command abilities are ok but they cannot be locked so high vet becouse they will be just dead option like vet 5 LeFH AT shot.

I can suggest to change the vet system to put their command abilities between current vet1/vet2 and vet2/vet3. The area abilities make more sense earlier when Tiger doesn't reach it's best spot and would work more like a support army platform.

I know it's low priority but if PGs keep their new Vet 1 Combined Arms Passive I'd love to see Infantry Doctrine Veteran Squad Leader upgrade for PGs changed so that they get something new now that the upgrade is Stock Vet.

Excuse me but how often do you see vet3 Tiger tank? And let's assume you will get vet5 Tiger, do you really think you would use the tank buff ability and reduce to combat performance of the best unit you have on field? The command abilities are ok but they cannot be locked so high vet becouse they will be just dead option like vet 5 LeFH AT shot.

I can suggest to change the vet system to put their command abilities between current vet1/vet2 and vet2/vet3. The area abilities make more sense earlier when Tiger doesn't reach it's best spot and would work more like a support army platform.

Getting a Tiger to vet 3 isn't very hard in team games. I suppose it's much more difficult in 1v1s but if we'd balance the requirements or abilities for the lower XP gain of that mode, it would just steamroll team games.

I understand your sentiment, but I think the Tiger for OKW is really powerful on its own and it doesn't need anything over the Ostheer Tiger to be viable. The command ability at vet 4 and vet 5 is just a little extra that it gets to use but it isn't the reason to get a Tiger. The alternative is to just make OKW Tiger's vet 5 be the equivalent (both in bonusses and in requirements) of Ostheer's vet 3 but that would be a bit bland. The command ability is just there as a little wink at the people who voted for a "Command Tiger" (which obviously was never going to be a thing).

I still think it'd be better to give OKW the Tiger Ace and put something else entirely in Strategic Reserves.

Daily reminder that current Panzerfusiliers Schrecks are not comparable at all to old Volks Schrecks for a huge number of reasons.

Also just to calm everyone down, the sprints (both the vet 5 passive and Tactical Movement) will very likely be replaced. Just haven't decided yet on what will replace them.

Wait a second. Why are you trying to replace tactical movement (Which fits the "Grand Offensive theme") in order to keep the double shrecks? People didn't choose Tank Hunter Tactics for a reason. I'm not saying pfusi shrecks are broken by any means but you can't just change the doctrine just to keep them. Just like T3 locked Tiger if most disagree just remove the double shrecks or replace them with at rifles. 2.0 version with T3 locked Tiger and no double shrecks would still be a good doctrine anyway.

Wait a second. Why are you trying to replace tactical movement (Which fits the "Grand Offensive theme") in order to keep the double shrecks? People didn't choose Tank Hunter Tactics for a reason.

Because replacing Tactical Movement with an assault type ability that doesn't involve sprinting would allow to keep the best of both worlds. About 49% of people still voted for Panzerschrecks after all.

And an assault ability (Tactical Movement) wasn't in the original proposal anyway. It was added to replace the proposed HEAT shells (would've been problematic with Tiger and doctrine power level) in the spirit of the offensive theme. Any assault type ability can fit that spot.

I still think it'd be better to give OKW the Tiger Ace and put something else entirely in Strategic Reserves.

The Tiger Ace (in its current state) would have a much less distinguishable role over the King Tiger than the regular Tiger has. The TA has 1280 hitpoints (same as KT), less mobility than the Tiger and it's nearly as expensive as the King Tiger. It even has the Spearhead ability.

The regular Tiger on the other hand is a cheaper, less tanky but more mobile/aggressive alternative to the King Tiger that stands out much more.

Could try making the 2nd Shrek locked behind vet if we're so horny to keep it I've played many mods that have vet locked upgrades so it's possible. Scrap sprint with vet of course but keep tac movement

If people really want single/double Shrek on a 5/6 man squad instead of a squishy 4 man squad like PZgrens or Sturmpioneers, then the purchased AT upgrade has to lock out the sprint effect. Shreks penetrate a minimum of 90% of allied armour you will see in the course of a battle frontally, its just a little bit too lazy to sprint into range and blow em up. If they had flanking AT weapons like Bazooka/PIAT this would be something else.

The Tiger Ace (in its current state) would have a much less distinguishable role over the King Tiger than the regular Tiger has. The TA has 1280 hitpoints (same as KT), less mobility than the Tiger and it's nearly as expensive as the King Tiger. It even has the Spearhead ability.

The regular Tiger on the other hand is a cheaper, less tanky but more mobile/aggressive alternative to the King Tiger that stands out much more.

I think Lago means a reworked TA, like the TA we have in the preview. I personally agree with him, not only because the Tiger would be too common otherwise, but also to keep mechanized assault more unique. I'd rather see the Tiger buffed, so people use it in the doctrines it's already available in.

I think Lago means a reworked TA, like the TA we have in the preview.

The stats I listed are what it has in the preview.

Because replacing Tactical Movement with an assault type ability that doesn't involve sprinting would allow to keep the best of both worlds. About 49% of people still voted for Panzerschrecks after all.

And an assault ability (Tactical Movement) wasn't in the original proposal anyway. It was added to replace the proposed HEAT shells (would've been problematic with Tiger and doctrine power level) in the spirit of the offensive theme. Any assault type ability can fit that spot.



The Tiger Ace (in its current state) would have a much less distinguishable role over the King Tiger than the regular Tiger has. The TA has 1280 hitpoints (same as KT), less mobility than the Tiger and it's nearly as expensive as the King Tiger. It even has the Spearhead ability.

The regular Tiger on the other hand is a cheaper, less tanky but more mobile/aggressive alternative to the King Tiger that stands out much more.

Well thats what happens when you have those 50/50 cases. it seems to me the double shreck thing is just a no win scenario (many want double shrecks but many hate the idea so be ready for even more complains after the patch is out) but if the team really want to keep them it was worth making that clear.

If i may suggest, assault and hold ability could be a good replacement (good assault ability, no sprint, can work with smoke) and like I've said many times please bring back the IR stgs. Panzer commander is good for elite armor but the stgs even in spec ops are quite a forgotten ability. I'm all for good assault obers play along with soviet paras, panzer grenadiers and cheaper rangers.

The stats I listed are what it has in the preview.

If the TA still has 1280 HP, that's a pretty good deal. I thought the HP bonus got removed.

If i may suggest, assault and hold ability could be a good replacement (good assault ability, no sprint, can work with smoke) and like I've said many times please bring back the IR stgs. Panzer commander is good for elite armor but the stgs even in spec ops are quite a forgotten ability.

I also liked the IR Stgs but the weapons should not only be available for Obers. Someone suggested to give the Sturmpios this upgrade too - thats a good proposal in my eyes. The only problem that i see is that Specops would get buffed too- tahts the last thing we want.
But why not make the additional IR Stgs upgrade available only for Grand offensive? Just call it "Offensive package" again, now we avoid the buff for Specops.

I also liked the IR Stgs but the weapons should not only be available for Obers. Someone suggested to give the Sturmpios this upgrade too - thats a good proposal in my eyes. The only problem that i see is that Specops would get buffed too- tahts the last thing we want.
But why not make the additional IR Stgs upgrade available only for Grand offensive? Just call it "Offensive package" again, now we avoid the buff for Specops.

Wow thats actually an amazing idea. Sturmpios are an interesting unit because of its early game dominance and late game falloff so a weapon upgrade could totally work. However, balance is quite delicate here and I'm not sure if the rest of the community would allow anything to "buff" Sturms. Still, its a great suggestion and at least worth testing.

Might it be possible to add a manual RELOAD button to the Ostwind? However good it is, its little use if starting a new engagement with 1 shell firing then having to cease fire in order to reload.

I also liked the IR Stgs but the weapons should not only be available for Obers. Someone suggested to give the Sturmpios this upgrade too - thats a good proposal in my eyes. The only problem that i see is that Specops would get buffed too- tahts the last thing we want.
But why not make the additional IR Stgs upgrade available only for Grand offensive? Just call it "Offensive package" again, now we avoid the buff for Specops.

do u want strumpio spam?

Might it be possible to add a manual RELOAD button to the Ostwind? However good it is, its little use if starting a new engagement with 1 shell firing then having to cease fire in order to reload.

You can use attack ground to have it reload in between engagements (cancel attack ground order after it stops firing to reload). Manual reload would be a neat feature but there are a ton of vehicles that should have it. Wouldn't be fair to give it only to the Ostwind but it's too low priority and time consuming to add it to everything at once.

do u want strumpio spam?

No, put the upgrade behind t4. Sturms will still fall of hard in midgame. You could also make the upgrade mutually exclusive with Sweepers and Schreckupgrade. OKW players had to chose: Do you want an early upgrade or wait for the late game? Keep also in mind the high munition costs in an munition heavy commander.