Thoughts on conscripts ? i think they need something.

I mean does anyone remember when Cons dealt 16 damage a shot just like Penals instead of 12 damage a shot?

It was hilarious, con spam was the way to go. The change to drop it to 12 is what really put them in the back seat. Because blobbing cons wasn't awful, even against upgraded Volks or Grens. You'd just katty them, kv8 them and still have this big durable blob of essentially.. Penal DPS that was harder to kill and has more utility.

I don't want to see the con blob back, no more than you want to see the volk blob with shrecks back.

That's some kind of bad sarcasm or you're completely oblivious to the fact that accuracy has gone UP, DPS mostly stayed the same/very slightly went up and damage dealt became RELIABLE instead of full on RNG?
Also, penals deal 10 damage.

That's some kind of bad sarcasm or you're completely oblivious to the fact that accuracy has gone UP, DPS mostly stayed the same/very slightly went up and damage dealt became RELIABLE instead of full on RNG?
Also, penals deal 10 damage.

Penals SVT rifles did 16, and Cons/Engineers did for awhile too as far I remember. They nerffed the Cons to 12 damage (this is back when Penals has flamers if I recall).

Then everyone spammed Engineers until they too got nerffed down to 12.

Then later we got Penals buffed to be actually useful because they had some AT and weren't tooled by lights.


That being said, where the hell is the coh2 stats page, it says the websites down. I'll edit that post if I'm wrong....

Is this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IX68mtMEFLUVZCJpdgLxtm9cLajZATNRwISihru8rZM/edit#gid=0

Penals do 8 in this, Engineers 16.. Cons 16.. this has to be outdated?

What the hell are you talking about?
CEs always did 16 damage with bad accuracy, that didn't changed even for a moment in the last 6 years.

Cons always did 16 until last years readjustment to make their damage reliable and DPS UNCHANGED in any meaningful way.

Penals were all over the place in last 2 years, but you have patch notes for that.

No one ever spammed CEs and sprice is not "everyone".

And yes, your link is as outdated as it can humanly get.

Penals SVT rifles did 16, and Cons/Engineers did for awhile too as far I remember. They nerffed the Cons to 12 damage (this is back when Penals has flamers if I recall).

They increased their accuracy at the same time. Combat Engineers still have old low accuracy high damage Mosins, which is why they suck against everything but Kubels which they butcher.

Name ONE -RELEVANT- to the current meta infantry which I did not listed, for which SVT is an upgrade over what they have as stock or can get as stock upgrade.

You can stop with this at any time now...

You can stop with this at any time now...

I will, when he'll stop dodging the question and answers it as apparently he believes in his right, so as he did in the past, I'll make sure to give him a chance to prove "his false theory".

I'm not insulting him and he doesn't have an excuse to retreat and pretend nothing was said this time.
Question is relevant to the discussion and to what he has replied to me.

I will, when he'll stop dodging the question and answers it as apparently he believes in his right, so as he did in the past, I'll make sure to give him a chance to prove "his false theory".

I'm not insulting him and he doesn't have an excuse to retreat and pretend nothing was said this time.
Question is relevant to the discussion and to what he has replied to me.

Move on and grow up. You might not like him but like yourself he often has good input and is quite knowledgeable. And like yourself he occasionally gets shit wrong. He might be bothered to respond if you promoted actual discussion instead of a dick measuring contest in every thread you both comment on. It's exhausting. You both clearly are passionate about the game and both have your visions on how it should be but fuck if you guys can't be right dicks about it, especially to each other. Just dial it back, it doesn't matter who is the biggest coh nerd. From one coh fan to another please for the love of God dial it back.

Penals SVT rifles did 16, and Cons/Engineers did for awhile too as far I remember. They nerffed the Cons to 12 damage (this is back when Penals has flamers if I recall).

Then everyone spammed Engineers until they too got nerffed down to 12.

Then later we got Penals buffed to be actually useful because they had some AT and weren't tooled by lights.


That being said, where the hell is the coh2 stats page, it says the websites down. I'll edit that post if I'm wrong....

Is this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IX68mtMEFLUVZCJpdgLxtm9cLajZATNRwISihru8rZM/edit#gid=0

Penals do 8 in this, Engineers 16.. Cons 16.. this has to be outdated?

This more updated:
https://coh2db.com/stats/

Cons could benefit from a T4 side tech. The idea being that the tech would make base cons a more long-term investment compared to Penals and T1 pressure that you give up by going cons. The side tech would unlock a free upgrade for all conscripts but the upgrade would be mutually exclusive to commander upgrades (PPSh specifically). Whether it upgrade RA, accuracy, raw damage, cooldown, etc would be up for debate. The important part is that it is not a weapon upgrade, since so many are against seeing the same thing on every mainline squad in the game.

Some other things to consider would be whether such a thing would take up a weapon slot or not, depending on how powerful it is. Since this upgrade wouldn't be a weapon, changing conscripts to something like 'Frontoviki' and changing the icon would let the enemy know when to expect harder fighting conscripts. This upgrade would help replacing con squads if lost in the late game as well. It could even increase the rate at which veterancy is earned for such squads since cons rely on it so much.

I’d say they could receive progressive bonuses linked to each tier built.

For example:
T1: increases vision by 10%
T2: resist supression by 5 or 10%
T3: cost for urrah cut by 50%, grenades by 20%
T4: reinforce cost reduced by 10%

This way u have an additional reason to build tiers and they can stay relevant throughout the game

I’d say they could receive progressive bonuses linked to each tier built.

For example:
T1: increases vision by 10%
T2: resist supression by 5 or 10%
T3: cost for urrah cut by 50%, grenades by 20%
T4: reinforce cost reduced by 10%

This way u have an additional reason to build tiers and they can stay relevant throughout the game

While general idea might be in a good direction and intent, these examples address absolutely nothing in regards to their impotence in late game and does not make them a bit appealing in the slightest.

Balancing conscripts and making more appealing are two separate issues.

In order to make them more appealing one has to simply reduce the power level of other option like Penals and Guards. As an added bonuses other infatry in the Soviet army disposal like Assault Guards, partisans, shock troops...will also become more appealing.

In order to make them more appealing one has to simply reduce the power level of other option like Penals and Guards.

So "simply" nerf multiple other squads to fix one squad, after which it would take either an entire faction rebalance or multiple faction rebalances because Soviet faction power level would go down (as their current power level is built on Penals and Guards/Shocks mostly). An admirable solution perhaps, but not a practical one.

So "simply" nerf multiple other squads to fix one squad, after which it would take either an entire faction rebalance or multiple faction rebalances because Soviet faction power level would go down (as their current power level is built on Penals and Guards/Shocks mostly). An admirable solution perhaps, but not a practical one.

You are actually describing what has already been done, a large potion of units have been buffed and USF has been redesigned exactly because Penal and VG where over-buffed to begin with.

On now can continue down this path and one will end up buffing conscripts and then will have to also buff grenadiers or one can simply start toning down all these powerful infatry that are available so early.

The increased power level of the first solution simply make fights last less and early squad wipes easier leading to easier snowball effects.

The second solution should not even be that hard implement since the appropriate power level units are know.

I'm quite positive USF was redesigned because it had very unflexible tech structure that didn't offered much of a freedom, forced the exact same opening every single time, which in return led to USF being forced into more infantry units then they actually needed, not because volks and penals.

Due to in-house data, tournament data, and player sentiment, it has become clear that USF is in need of a little bit of help within its tech structure.

The current USF tech choices of Lieutenant or Captain, and the units within these tiers is seen as an overly punishing and restrictive choice.

You think otherwise, then provide relevant quotes from relic.

I'm quite positive USF was redesigned because it had very unflexible tech structure that didn't offered much of a freedom, forced the exact same opening every single time, which in return led to USF being forced into more infantry units then they actually needed, not because volks and penals.



You think otherwise, then provide relevant quotes from relic.

Then OKW need also a redesign for the exact same reasons.

Then OKW need also a redesign for the exact same reasons.

So go make a thread about it and ask relic to analyse data for OKW and find multiple high level players who believe OKW is in need of such redesign as well.

However you might have a hard time proving OKW is in need of such move, given their overall tournament record.

So go make a thread about it and ask relic to analyse data for OKW and find multiple high level players who believe OKW is in need of such redesign as well.

However you might have a hard time proving OKW is in need of such move, given their overall tournament record.

There are some things that they need to look into is the vet issues that units are currently experiencing.

Kubel for one underperforms, vet rate extremely slow, accuracy low. These 2 elements should be improved as on the forum "Kubel needs changes".

Volks is quite versatile, should be revamped. "Revamp Volks terms of Versatility". Distribute its vertsatility to Sturmpio in order to create not a heavy overall reliance upon a dedicated "one can do most" unit.

Luchs needs slight improvements in accuracy. Should perform at least the way T70 performs specifically against Infantry only. Accuracy and move supressive ability to vet 3 instead of vet 5 which is kind of ridiculous.
__

NOW SU

We can start of with what @SkysTheLimit said on this forum comment n.42: https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245824/sov-all-trip-wire-flares-vet1-ability/p2


@SkysTheLimit
"I think Molly's and snares should be one tech, for 150mp and 20-25 fuel at most."

It is definitely a good idea to begin with since it does not currently have a weapon upgrade by default, to start with is by nerfing the price of AT and Moltov.

Starting off with what SkysTheLimit mentioned is definitely a good start, a necessary decision!!!

If you guys want PPSH upgrade for Cons, they should limited to 2 max (2 models wielding the PPSH), not 3 like doctrinal upgrade. Would definitely require "Oraah" to be removed if it became accessible by default. OR an MG like what the Guard Rifle Infantry has.

Just saying. Requires in depth thought and taken into consideration, what faults and possibilities there may be!

You are actually describing what has already been done, a large potion of units have been buffed and USF has been redesigned exactly because Penal and VG where over-buffed to begin with.


On now can continue down this path and one will end up buffing conscripts and then will have to also buff grenadiers or one can simply start toning down all these powerful infatry that are available so early.

Wait what? USF just got their tech slightly redesigned to make it more flexible, because the singular path tech was too punishing. That had nothing to do with any units underperforming.

Also a late game buff to Conscripts wouldn't require any buffs for Grenadiers, because they would only become more equal late game instead of LMG Grens stomping Cons.

By that logic CEs getting SVTs are super OP because they go from jack shit damage to half as good as a penal squad.

But that's not the reality. A proportionally large increase is almost meaningless on conscripts, because conscripts are an awful unit that people have been trying to find a long term buff for since 2013.

My point waa that >Rifles picking up SVTs< compare worse.

SVTs only look good on conacripts because conscripts are garbage.

I want conscripts to get a weapon upgrade. I want the commander to be decent. I would rather rhe svts were non-doctrinal.

However, given that's unlikely, I would much rather the svt package was made better, somehow.

You have agreed that SVT should be replaced and you are drifting of Topic so I moved my response here.

C.E. is a very powerful unit once they upgrade with flamer due to synergy with conscripts merge. (that will become even worse if they can upgrade with both svt and flamer if they fix the bugs.)

Actually you are mistaken conscripts have very good vet bonuses and used to become very good if they picked up weapons. That is actually the reason why some changes where made like:
Reducing the weapon slots to 1
and
making lmg34 inferior to hand of other units than obers