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USF Urban Assault -Feedback

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19 Apr 2019, 18:10 PM
#221
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1



Thanks for the info!

When they pick up two bazookas from the rack they actually get three, so that's three extra powerful bazookas. Which could be a bit too much, especially on a commander that has a sprint ability that can be used on several squads at once.

Are they supposed to get three (for the price of two) or is that a bug?


Nah, you gotta buy 3 of them for 150 munitions, from the weapon racks.
Big investment for a good pay off, 300 damage potential, since they don't get ambush bonuses.
19 Apr 2019, 18:46 PM
#222
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Am I the only one who see a problem with a 110F HE sherman tank with 720 HP, 50 cal and 215 armor? Like come on guys. At least the OKW p4 at 234 has 640 HP and costs 140F. USF powercreep is unreal last few patches.
19 Apr 2019, 18:54 PM
#223
avatar of Qeit

Posts: 61

ShadowLinkX37, Balance Team said that in worst case upgrade would cost mp and fuel. So that problem would be resolved.
19 Apr 2019, 19:09 PM
#224
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2019, 18:54 PMQeit
ShadowLinkX37, Balance Team said that in worst case upgrade would cost mp and fuel. So that problem would be resolved.

Still that is power creep, even though you pay for it. Imagine if pz4 could pay side armor skirts, tungsten rounds for extra pen and he rounds like Sherman's. It would be insanely OP
19 Apr 2019, 19:20 PM
#225
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Still that is power creep, even though you pay for it. Imagine if pz4 could pay side armor skirts, tungsten rounds for extra pen and he rounds like Sherman's. It would be insanely OP


Armour skirts are a bad example, most Ostheer tanks already conjure them with veterancy.

But true, I don't much like the idea of a T-34/76 upgrading into a KV-1, and this is pretty much the same thing.

I think it should at least cost fuel and be mutually exclusive with the .50 cal.

Ideally, ditch it entirely and add some sort of Sherman Jumbo unit instead.
19 Apr 2019, 19:30 PM
#226
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Am I the only one who see a problem with a 110F HE sherman tank with 720 HP, 50 cal and 215 armor? Like come on guys. At least the OKW p4 at 234 has 640 HP and costs 140F. USF powercreep is unreal last few patches.


You are forgetting the munitions cost for both the .50 cal and the dozer blade.
On the "2 BARs" munitions hungry Army.
That often faces ATGs with enough penetration that the Dozerblade only adds the HP, the extra armor is only significant vs one PZ4s, which you have to switch from HE to beat and will come to dice or who has support anyway.
19 Apr 2019, 19:30 PM
#227
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


Still that is power creep, even though you pay for it. Imagine if pz4 could pay side armor skirts, tungsten rounds for extra pen and he rounds like Sherman's. It would be insanely OP

Like..... OKW P4 for Ost maybe?
Or better rounds buff for OKW P4 in elite armor?
19 Apr 2019, 20:00 PM
#228
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Patrion 26

Posts: 328



Nah, you gotta buy 3 of them for 150 munitions, from the weapon racks.
Big investment for a good pay off, 300 damage potential, since they don't get ambush bonuses.


When you pick up two bazookas you get given three, I have no idea why, I assume it's a bug. Give it a try the next time you test the mod.
There doesn't seem to be a way to only have two.
19 Apr 2019, 20:15 PM
#229
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

That's a bug, has to be.
19 Apr 2019, 20:18 PM
#230
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



You are forgetting the munitions cost for both the .50 cal and the dozer blade.
On the "2 BARs" munitions hungry Army.
That often faces ATGs with enough penetration that the Dozerblade only adds the HP, the extra armor is only significant vs one PZ4s, which you have to switch from HE to beat and will come to dice or who has support anyway.


The potential for unit power is more relevent the later the game goes. Munitions matter far less the later the game goes, and generally get dumped into 1-2 abilities like CAS. If the cost of the upgrades matters, T34s should be receiving a nerf to their MGs since their hull MGs deal equal DPS to that of the 3 MGs on the p4s, except P4s are required to pay for it.
19 Apr 2019, 20:38 PM
#231
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1



The potential for unit power is more relevent the later the game goes. Munitions matter far less the later the game goes, and generally get dumped into 1-2 abilities like CAS. If the cost of the upgrades matters, T34s should be receiving a nerf to their MGs since their hull MGs deal equal DPS to that of the 3 MGs on the p4s, except P4s are required to pay for it.


Well, for that I'll pull up one of the favorite arguments around, "it's doctrinal".

I guess PZ4 understands how Assymetrical Balance works.
Your point is that this makes USF lategame even better vs OKW, who can struggle against them already, if they are allowed to get both fuel and munitions?
Because I can't deny the new doctrines are just BETTER than the old ones but there wasn't much competition to begin with. Pershing only meta remembers that.
ddd
19 Apr 2019, 20:41 PM
#232
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

In this topic:

People comparing 215 armor and 720HP Sherman to KV1 or Churchill.

Lets forget that you need to pay for it, 70 muni for dozer + 70 muni for pintle mount = 140 muni per Sherman.

I wonder how will you afford double BARs, which obviously are mandatory since in every thread about USF you can read how double BAR Riflemen are destroying axis infantry every game.
19 Apr 2019, 22:20 PM
#233
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2019, 19:30 PMKatitof

Like..... OKW P4 for Ost maybe?
Or better rounds buff for OKW P4 in elite armor?

Yeah, all those upgrades at the same time, adding on top of that, panzer tactician smoke. Way out of this planet cheesy peasy batshit OP. That was what I meant to say. Thanks katitof
19 Apr 2019, 22:30 PM
#234
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Well, for that I'll pull up one of the favorite arguments around, "it's doctrinal".

I guess PZ4 understands how Assymetrical Balance works.
...

Then I'll just put up the even more common answer to that argument but instead of OKM I'll put USF, ready? USF OP, pls nerf.

Panzerfusiliers are doctrinal too and they already got more hate than volks before even going live into the game.
I guess that's how balance works. Either you defend it with logic or see it dumped into the nerf trash bin.
19 Apr 2019, 22:33 PM
#235
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


Then I'll just put up the even more common answer to that argument but instead of OKM I'll put USF, ready? USF OP, pls nerf.

Panzerfusiliers are doctrinal too and they already got more hate than volks before even going live into the game.
I guess that's how balance works. Either you defend it with logic or see it dumped into the nerf trash bin.

(last time community was not hating on radical redesign of a unit which also now appeared earlier on field, JLI happened)
19 Apr 2019, 23:16 PM
#236
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2019, 22:33 PMKatitof

(last time community was not hating on radical redesign of a unit which also now appeared earlier on field, JLI happened)


Not to mention that the 0 CP call-ins for USF all had to be adjusted, if not nerfed to balance them as they not only overtook Riflemen, but where quite abusive at times. (AEs)
20 Apr 2019, 00:07 AM
#237
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



Well, for that I'll pull up one of the favorite arguments around, "it's doctrinal".

I guess PZ4 understands how Assymetrical Balance works.
Your point is that this makes USF lategame even better vs OKW, who can struggle against them already, if they are allowed to get both fuel and munitions?
Because I can't deny the new doctrines are just BETTER than the old ones but there wasn't much competition to begin with. Pershing only meta remembers that.


I mean I can go back and fourth all day with asymmetrically balanced things. Pfusi for example in the test mod. They're "doctrinal" yet they're trash tier without upgrades. Doctrinal =/= OP AF.

The point is, HE sherman doesn't need an HP and armor boost, not while jackson is curb stomping anything and everything and 2x scotts are near undefeatable.
20 Apr 2019, 00:13 AM
#238
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1



I mean I can go back and fourth all day with asymmetrically balanced things. Pfusi for example in the test mod. They're "doctrinal" yet they're trash tier without upgrades. Doctrinal =/= OP AF.

The point is, HE sherman doesn't need an HP and armor boost, not while jackson is curb stomping anything and everything and 2x scotts are near undefeatable.



Shouldn't they be better now they arrive early and you don't need to build Volks to get munitions for their upgrade? Heck, they even kinda nerfed the shreck rush taking Tactical Movement away.

USF stock lategame is good now, nothing wrong with that, pretty sure they teased it would get nerfed in the future. At least the Jackson, just not now, hang in there.
20 Apr 2019, 01:18 AM
#239
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The design philosophy on the new Panzerfusiliers is they're an alternate opening: weaker than Volks out the gate but with stronger scaling.

The Dozer Blade though? No idea. I personally don't think it should be in Urban Assault or Mechanized: I'd rather give Urban Assault a proper premium medium tank and Mechanized's got enough in it already.

That's a minority opinion though, so I'll just have to get used to it.
20 Apr 2019, 10:22 AM
#240
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2019, 01:18 AMLago
The design philosophy on the new Panzerfusiliers is they're an alternate opening: weaker than Volks out the gate but with stronger scaling.

The Dozer Blade though? No idea. I personally don't think it should be in Urban Assault or Mechanized: I'd rather give Urban Assault a proper premium medium tank and Mechanized's got enough in it already.

That's a minority opinion though, so I'll just have to get used to it.


A Meatshield tank works tho both thematically and functionally. You want your most tough tank spearheading the assault which includes towns as well.
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