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Thoughts on Panzergrenadiers

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26 Mar 2019, 01:49 AM
#201
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 07:35 AMKatitof

I was ranked 47 in axis and 64 in allies in 2s, when my 2v2 mate was still alive, but suit yourself.

sry to hear that katitof, people seem to not respect even those who have left this life. sadly,
26 Mar 2019, 07:01 AM
#202
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 09:16 AMKatitof

Yes, exactly, because you actually can carry someone in 2s to that rank when you're just slightly above his level.
Get a grip on reality.


It's not hard, all you need is one good player and the scrub can sit back and spam support weapons and soviet heavy mortars. You probably quit when the pinpoint veterancy ability on the soviet heavy mortar was cut out like the cancer it was.
26 Mar 2019, 12:17 PM
#203
avatar of waasdijki

Posts: 76

Some fixes I think could help:

-more health for the squad
-smoke grenade for vet 1
-separate Schreck upgrade instead of 2
-cost reduction
26 Mar 2019, 21:44 PM
#204
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

smokes on pgrens is not good.
Really dont go that way, they already had a patches ago and it got removed almost immediatly
26 Mar 2019, 22:17 PM
#205
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

My idea:

Lets focus on the "panzer" part of these grenadiers and give them vet1 ability that would somehow improve their performance when there is a vehicle nearby. What kind of ability? I'd go with something akin to sherman vet1.

Multikill with single stone.
-unit buffed
-encouraged use of light vehicles
-can't be blobbed as it'll net same results as now

Only disadvantage of the idea is, it wouldn't do them much when there is no owned vehicle around.
26 Mar 2019, 23:38 PM
#206
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2019, 14:45 PMLago
That's another solution to a similar effect.

I'd hesitate to give them IR rifles though. Jaegers proved how much of a nightmare ignoring cover on relatively early units is.


Oh no I did not mean to give them the IR STG44s themselves, just the concept of DPS distribution that that upgrade uses (basically the same principle as LMGs).

Panzergrenadiers and IR STG44 Obers are very similar squads, yet one is meh (Pgrens) and the other is god tier (IR STG Obers). Obers do not have any distinct advantages in RA, have the same model count, and essentially the same weapons profile (assault rifles). They even have less raw DPS at full strength (although they do get a way better accuracy modifier vs cover). Yet the Obers are so much better. Imo that is in large part because of this mechanic where they get to keep most of their DPS up until the last two models. Even though it might a bit of a boring solution, I personally think it's one of the best ways to make Pgrens much more usable without having to give them all sorts of crazy buffs or new abilities.

So I would propose roughly:

  • Panzergrenadiers weapons loadout changed from 4x STG44 to 2x STG44 and 2x MP40 (or Kar 98K or G43)
  • STG44 DPS changed from (4x) 15.5 to (2x) 24 at range 5 (as an example)
  • Other weapons DPS is (2x) 7 at range 5.
  • Panzerschreck upgrade replaces the 2x STG44s with 2x Panzerschrecks.
  • These changes would let the Panzergrenadiers have the same DPS at full strength as they currently have (62 at range 5) but would let them retain roughly 75% of this DPS on the last two models, as opposed to now where they lose 25% DPS per model drop (so only 50% DPS left with last two models). This 75% of DPS focussed on the two assault rifles is the same distribution profile that the IR STG44 Obers have.
26 Mar 2019, 23:50 PM
#207
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2238 | Subs: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2019, 22:17 PMKatitof
My idea:

Lets focus on the "panzer" part of these grenadiers and give them vet1 ability that would somehow improve their performance when there is a vehicle nearby. What kind of ability? I'd go with something akin to sherman vet1.

Multikill with single stone.
-unit buffed
-encouraged use of light vehicles
-can't be blobbed as it'll net same results as now

Only disadvantage of the idea is, it wouldn't do them much when there is no owned vehicle around.


+1 on that.

I think the "Hirt the Dirt" ability is perfect for that. :D
27 Mar 2019, 02:15 AM
#208
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2019, 23:50 PMnigo


+1 on that.

I think the "Hirt the Dirt" ability is perfect for that. :D


Hit the dirt makes the squad immobile, why would you want that nearby the most mobile units ingame? Tanks move backwards or dive into frontlines, just to go back or adjust its front mgs to a specific direction. To me makes no sense to add hit the dirt.

An "aura buff" meaning that nearby armour pgren get move speed par to the vehicle or extra RA can be a thing.
27 Mar 2019, 04:18 AM
#209
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Yup. Nothing says vehicle support squad like being static...

I like the idea of a mutual aura as a vet 1 that improves vehicles and the pgrens. Would really solidify their role as mobile firepower and bring contrast to grens more static design
27 Mar 2019, 09:30 AM
#210
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

If the Pg do get a new vet 1 ability I would suggest it scales with veterancy. That goes for most vet 1 abilities.
27 Mar 2019, 10:34 AM
#211
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 611

I would like to see the received accuracy increased because of 4 man squad. They just die too fast for their price to be effective,


+1

I think some care needs to be taken not to make them into braindead yolo units ( like so many allied CQ units ) but they are often uneconomical. They could also do with reinforce reduction in MP or time.

I also think they could do with a big DPS buff at point blank range. They number of times I have flanked an mg or morter and not gotten a single kill because the unit just packed up and retreated seems ridiculous, especially when some allied units will obliterate team weapons when they get close.
28 Mar 2019, 10:48 AM
#212
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Simply just performs well as it is, the changes I think it needs just are.

1./ Decrease price to around 300

2./ Have an MG42 upgrade for more longer term choice, AI alternative like similar to Obers, costs 75 ammo or something. Would be interesting. To scale a little more later game, counter units that are tougher.

3./ Why price decrease, already drops like flies when by default. Costs already a lot to reinforce.


So that it seems more optional and used more frequently.

Everybody's usual build menu is Pio, Grens, MG, Mortar and others except Pzgrens, hardly used.

Not everything but at the least, decrease its price.
28 Mar 2019, 21:44 PM
#213
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 469

Just make focus fire and repair from the clowncar commander baseline.
There you have a flanking PANZER grenader squad.
30 Mar 2019, 00:50 AM
#214
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

Just had a wild idea on PGren G43 package: what if we kept the current rifles, but gave the rifles extra 5 range? (total 40 range; snipers have 50 range)

PGren G43s have 3.216DPS at 35 range. Working with the DPS slope at long range (18 to 35), DPS at 40 range would be 2.6255. This is just a touch more DPS than Grenadier Kar 98k rifles at 35 range and a touch less DPS than IS SMLE rifles at 35 range. Not too much DPS, but definitely forces you to react. They could even be used to poke a garrison down without the garrisoned infantry able to fire back.

This would make them true long-range specialist infantry, and gives the G43 upgrade a niche role to fill, thus giving players a reason to pick G43s.
30 Mar 2019, 01:34 AM
#215
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2238 | Subs: 15

Idea:

Give some bonus to PG in Green cover for the G43 upgrade like IS brits.
30 Mar 2019, 04:03 AM
#216
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Just had a wild idea on PGren G43 package: what if we kept the current rifles, but gave the rifles extra 5 range? (total 40 range; snipers have 50 range)

PGren G43s have 3.216DPS at 35 range. Working with the DPS slope at long range (18 to 35), DPS at 40 range would be 2.6255. This is just a touch more DPS than Grenadier Kar 98k rifles at 35 range and a touch less DPS than IS SMLE rifles at 35 range. Not too much DPS, but definitely forces you to react. They could even be used to poke a garrison down without the garrisoned infantry able to fire back.

This would make them true long-range specialist infantry, and gives the G43 upgrade a niche role to fill, thus giving players a reason to pick G43s.


Cool idea, I've always liked different ranges for inf, like how falls used to get more range with vet.
30 Mar 2019, 04:45 AM
#217
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

i find range is horribly underutilized. like, no, i dont want my ass grens shooting form max range so they can reload at the exact time they get into optimal range but thanks....

agreed though. extra g43 range could be neat
30 Mar 2019, 07:25 AM
#218
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

The name of the ability is Jaeger light infatry. There is no need to provide G43s for PGs. I can provide other bonuses/weapons.

If it is G43, I would rather see them get 4+1 G43s.
30 Mar 2019, 09:13 AM
#219
avatar of Exterior Reptile

Posts: 94

Permanently Banned
At long range they lose against guards, at close range they lose against shocks at mid range they lose against cons.


So I am asking, what is their purpose ?
30 Mar 2019, 10:49 AM
#220
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

At long range they lose against guards, at close range they lose against shocks at mid range they lose against cons.


So I am asking, what is their purpose ?


If you are referring to stock Panzergrenadiers, you have been misinformed. Assume both squads have equal cover. Long range they lose to DP-28 Guards, they lose to Shocks closing the distance, but they absolutely curbstomp Cons from mid range to close range (unless the Cons has the PPSh-41 upgrade). With G43s (which almost everyone agrees to be a downgrade), Panzergrenadiers win vs Cons at all ranges, even far.
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