Thoughts on Panzergrenadiers

Is it possible to change the G43 values only for Panzergrens by reducing the moving DPS and increase long range performance? Giving them a clear role as long range recon infantry would be quite interesting which ostheer currently doesn't have.

It's possible to do whatever you'd want with the G43s, as Panzergrenadiers use their own version of it. Ideally they would give PGrens long range DPS compared to LMG Obers, so they can supersede/supplement Grens in fighting Bren Tommies and double BAR Rifles and the upgrade offers a significant role change compared to the STG44s.


The problem however is that G43s are used by multiple squads and giving one of them a reverse profile of what the other G43 upgrades have (being a low-mid range upgrade) would probably make things very confusing for most players. The G43 sniper upgrade for JLI is already confusing for players, and that one at least has a noticably low rate of fire to help distinguish it.

Please give PnzGrns a scope-upgrade instead of the G43. There are Icons ingame to use for a up-grade.

G43 simply look so damn stupid on PnzGrns.

This sounds like an interesting solution. If their G43's had 75% moving dps (instead of 90%), they'd have about the same moving dps with 4 G43's as they currently have with 3 G43's and an STG. That would allow them to get 4 G43's without becoming too strong on the move.

50 sight with G43's would bring them in line with Pathfinders, flare Tommies and JLI. This would give Ostheer true recon infantry.

DPS changes at different ranges would have to be experimented with. I personally don't think an extra G43 would make them a dream unit at all ranges (we're talking 2~ more dps at range 35). Maybe exchange 20% short/mid range dps for 20% more long range damage.

(ost does have a recon infantry, in fact, they start with it)

(ost does have a recon infantry, in fact, they start with it)

I clearly stated in the post you quoted:

50 sight with G43's would bring them in line with Pathfinders, flare Tommies and JLI. This would give Ostheer true recon infantry.

The difference between 42 sight range (Pio's) and 50 sight range (JLI, vet 0 Paths and flare Tommies out of cover) is quite clear.

G43 pgrens currently have 42 sight like Pioneers, so you could deduct from my post that I don't consider them 'true' recon infantry. This is ofcourse my own opinion.

Doesn't G43s also come with interrogation ability?
The literal conditional map hack?

I see little reason for the fixation with Pgs and G43. Imo there are other solutions.

The G43 can easily be removed from Pg and leave the other bonuses for 10-20 Mu.

If one keep the G43 one is better taking another approach bringing something unique to the ability. For instance the upgrade now provides 4+1 G43 to the squad turning the Pg at good mid range oriented infatry. The G43s would have to re-balanced and redesigned.

As far as Pg goes they are simply too expensive, they should come out cheaper and have access to weapon upgrade.

Doesn't G43s also come with interrogation ability?
The literal conditional map hack?

I'd gladly trade interrogation for 50 sight range.

Interrogation is not a reliable ability in my opinion. You need to find a crawler first, which only has about a 5% chance of triggering when a model gets shot down. The interrogation itself takes about 5 seconds. If the crawler dies before these 5 seconds, the fow will not be revealed.

Interrogation does provide very useful information, but with the fow reveal being only 10 seconds long and the appearance of crawlers being based on RNG, it's hard to time it with anything.

Additional sight range is however always applicable and always useful, especially when attacking.

Doesn't G43s also come with interrogation ability?
The literal conditional map hack?

This ability has little impact, it is too situational. Standard recon, you can use when you are ready to capitalize on the information you gain. You can't rely on this ability to give you info when you need it. Pretty much no one uses it because no one even thinks about it.

It's a cool idea imo, and I don't want it to disappear, but you can't really say that it turns pgrens into scouts on par with JLI or pathfinders. Maybe if it was possible to make g43s consistently leave enemy models in the critically wounded state, you could argue that it's a balanced alternative to 8 extra sight.

(This is my point of view, if the idea is to make g43 pgrens recon infantry)

Another thing is, why ost should get recon infantry?
And why should it be PGs, which most certainly aren't anywhere near recon infantry?
Not having something is bad reason to get it.
Otherwise all 5 factions would have stock super heavy by now and ost is hardly only faction without recon infantry but still their recon stock options are above what soviets have for example.

Another thing is, why ost should get recon infantry?
And why should it be PGs, which most certainly aren't anywhere near recon infantry?
Not having something is bad reason to get it.
Otherwise all 5 factions would have stock super heavy by now and ost is hardly only faction without recon infantry but still their recon stock options are above what soviets have for example.

That information is simply false.
Soviet is faction with more stock reckon option than average:
Sniper
m3
trip wire flares
Sniper flares
Mortar flares
Zis tracking
T-70 reckon mode
Su-76 tracking
SU-85 focused site
Su--85 tracking and focused site

It's possible to do whatever you'd want with the G43s, as Panzergrenadiers use their own version of it. Ideally they would give PGrens long range DPS compared to LMG Obers, so they can supersede/supplement Grens in fighting Bren Tommies and double BAR Rifles and the upgrade offers a significant role change compared to the STG44s.

The problem however is that G43s are used by multiple squads and giving one of them a reverse profile of what the other G43 upgrades have (being a low-mid range upgrade) would probably make things very confusing for most players. The G43 sniper upgrade for JLI is already confusing for players, and that one at least has a noticably low rate of fire to help distinguish it.

Why not change the unit entirely then and make them more like obers if that's the role they should occupy?
-move them to t4
-give them 4 g43s with only 50% moving accuracy
-give them an lmg42/34 upgrade

I like the stat and vet changes but having PGs in the HQ is still a bit odd to me.

I see little reason for the fixation with Pgs and G43. Imo there are other solutions.

The G43 can easily be removed from Pg and leave the other bonuses for 10-20 Mu.

If one keep the G43 one is better taking another approach bringing something unique to the ability. For instance the upgrade now provides 4+1 G43 to the squad turning the Pg at good mid range oriented infatry. The G43s would have to re-balanced and redesigned.

As far as Pg goes they are simply too expensive, they should come out cheaper and have access to weapon upgrade.

Maybe G43 should bundle with Veteran squad leader……Grens upgrade squad size+1 and got 2xG43,PzGrens upgrade got mark target ability and 4xG43,same to StromTroopers……

Another thing is, why ost should get recon infantry?
And why should it be PGs, which most certainly aren't anywhere near recon infantry?
Not having something is bad reason to get it.
Otherwise all 5 factions would have stock super heavy by now and ost is hardly only faction without recon infantry but still their recon stock options are above what soviets have for example.

The suggestion is for doctrinal G43 pgrens, which currently have no clear role. The sight bonus they get is small, they get a considerable close/mid range dps nerf and their long range dps is not enough to compete with upgunned mainlines. 50 sight with 4 G43's (with nerfed moving dps) could make the upgrade distinct enough to be worth sidegrading your pgrens for. This is in my opinion a better solution than keeping the upgrade as awkward as it is, but making it dirt cheap.

I also don't agree that Soviets have inferior recon options:
- Vet 1 Mortar and Sniper flares.
- Focus sight, which gives +40 sight to the SU85.
- Vet 1 tracking for SU76/85/ZIS that gives +40% sight and reveals units on the minimap at 70 range
- T70 with 45,5 sight at vet 2 and up to 68 sight in recon mode.
- (M3, M5, sniper, tripwire flares)

Meanwhile Ostheer, while having good recon options, are definitely less late game focused:
- Pioneers with 42 sight range.
- 222 with 50 sight at vet 0 and 65 sight at vet 2.
- Vet 1 infantry awareness for 222/251 that reveals infantry on the minimap at 80 range.
- (251, sniper, upgraded bunker)

Without spotting scopes, Ostheer actually doesn't have many lasting unit-based recon options. That's why I think 50 sight for G43 pgrens could be a useful addition for Ostheer.

Maybe G43 should bundle with Veteran squad leader……Grens upgrade squad size+1 and got 2xG43,PzGrens upgrade got mark target ability and 4xG43,same to StromTroopers……

I am still for split up the guns and the abilities.

-> like I said, there is an unused up-grade icon, a Symbol für STG44(Mp44) with Scope.

So we can upgrade PnzGrens with G43 or with better STGs.

Icons_upgrades_icon_upgrade_west_german_smg_mp44 / Icons_weapons_smg_mp44_infrared

Icons_upgrades_icon_upgrade_german_jaeger_infantry_package / Icons_weapons_weapon_gewehr43




e.g. we also have up-grade icons for scoped and non-scoped STG44 and G43.

I am still for split up the guns and the abilities.

-> like I said, there is an unused up-grade icon, a Symbol für STG44(Mp44) with Scope.

So we can upgrade PnzGrens with G43 or with better STGs.

Icons_upgrades_icon_upgrade_west_german_smg_mp44 / Icons_weapons_smg_mp44_infrared

Icons_upgrades_icon_upgrade_german_jaeger_infantry_package / Icons_weapons_weapon_gewehr43




e.g. we also have up-grade icons for scoped and non-scoped STG44 and G43.

Yeah~IRStg44 or JLI sniper G43 is good idea and also great improve
I agree with this idea

I am still for split up the guns and the abilities.

-> like I said, there is an unused up-grade icon, a Symbol für STG44(Mp44) with Scope

So we can upgrade PnzGrens with G43 or with better STGs.

Icons_upgrades_icon_upgrade_west_german_smg_mp44 / Icons_weapons_smg_mp44_infrared

Icons_upgrades_icon_upgrade_german_jaeger_infantry_package / Icons_weapons_weapon_gewehr43




e.g. we also have up-grade icons for scoped and non-scoped STG44 and G43.

But then the worldmodel will still be a normal stg, I guess if that's not important, it could be an option.

How should these scoped stgs work? Less dps at short range, more at med and long range?