Thoughts on Panzergrenadiers

Are you talking about transfer of doctrine combined arms passive ability for pg to non-doc, or it‘s going to be new passive ability for them?

A new passive ability when PzG are near Wher Tanks or Halftracks. You can ON/OFF this "PzG Hit the Dirt" with cooldown for each individual unit.


This will be a new use for PzG and open new tatics and strategies for Wher. Players will use the T2 halftracks + PzG to make pushs on early-mid game and major spearhead attacks on open fields with tanks/HT. All of this happened in real life.


Like I said before: REAL LIFE TATICS into CoH2.

Are you talking about transfer of doctrine combined arms passive ability for pg to non-doc, or it‘s going to be new passive ability for them?

Either transfer or make a similar one for stock pgrens

A new passive ability when PzG are near Wher Tanks or Halftracks. You can ON/OFF this "PzG Hit the Dirt" with cooldown for each individual unit.


This will be a new use for PzG and open new tatics and strategies for Wher. Players will use the T2 halftracks + PzG to make pushs on early-mid game and major spearhead attacks on open fields with tanks/HT. All of this happened in real life.


Like I said before: REAL LIFE TATICS into CoH2.

PG dont need "hit the dirt"

just decrease cost 340->300 / 34->32

thats enough

PG dont need "hit the dirt"

just decrease cost 340->300 / 34->32

thats enough

Such a price decrease would just be an open invitation to more Panzerschreck blobs.

OK time to completely re-do panzer grendiers imo, and make them a true specialist in anti-tank.

Panzer Grenadiers 2019

A dedicated tank hunting squad from the get go, able to only survive against infantry but very adept at tank busting.

New cost: 280mp

Main weapon load out: 1 x stg44, 2 x kar98, 1 x panzerschreck (1.2x damage and pen of normal schreck).

Moving speed: 0.8x that of normal squad (to stop blobs marauding in team games, and to simulate size of panzershrecks.

Abilities:

riegel mine - to cripple tanks and then allow schreck to finish them off.

tank awareness - see tanks moving in fog of war for a limited time, has to stay stationary.

veteran ability - 20mu smoke grenade: to allow them to narrow gaps and survive suppression vs. anti-infantry tanks

this + give stg44's back to storm troopers as no overlap

OK time to completely re-do panzer grendiers imo, and make them a true specialist in anti-tank.

Panzer Grenadiers 2019

A dedicated tank hunting squad from the get go, able to only survive against infantry but very adept at tank busting.

New cost: 280mp

Main weapon load out: 1 x stg44, 2 x kar98, 1 x panzerschreck (1.2x damage and pen of normal schreck).

Moving speed: 0.8x that of normal squad (to stop blobs marauding in team games, and to simulate size of panzershrecks.

Abilities:

riegel mine - to cripple tanks and then allow schreck to finish them off.

tank awareness - see tanks moving in fog of war for a limited time, has to stay stationary.

veteran ability - 20mu smoke grenade: to allow them to narrow gaps and survive suppression vs. anti-infantry tanks

And you're suggesting Ost doesn't get access to assault inf if you're suggesting to remove the stgs?

And you're suggesting Ost doesn't get access to assault inf if you're suggesting to remove the stgs?

Ost shouldn't have access to assault inf non doctrinally.

Ost shouldn't have access to assault inf non doctrinally.

They aren't even actually assault infantry, that's why they're non-doc. Can they match up to rangers, shocks, commandos? No. It's like calling sturms actual assault inf. Meanwhile USF gets assault inf on literally all doctrines except inf company, SU gets 1 min mark penals which are on par with pgrens and Brits get non-doc 5man sappers which are extremely cost efficient that can take on upgraded grenadiers sometimes.

Meanwhile USF gets assault inf on literally all doctrines except inf company

Tactical Support Company, Rifle Company, Recon Support Company.

Tactical Support Company, Rifle Company, Recon Support Company.

Well, ya get the point, at least half of them have assault troops and riflemen aren't half bad as assault troops either, unlike grens.

They aren't even actually assault infantry, that's why they're non-doc. Can they match up to rangers, shocks, commandos? No. It's like calling sturms actual assault inf.

Maybe that's why he's suggesting giving pgrens a whole bunch of utility...? Did you even read his whole post or just the part where they lose stgs? Cause he suggested giving them riegel mines, which would be a biiig bonus.

Meanwhile USF gets assault inf on literally all doctrines except inf company, SU gets 1 min mark penals which are on par with pgrens and Brits get non-doc 5man sappers which are extremely cost efficient that can take on upgraded grenadiers sometimes.

Not only is that not true, but what's your point? Ost has 5 heavy tank commanders, US has 1. You can make random claims about asymmetry all day and get no where

And you're suggesting Ost doesn't get access to assault inf if you're suggesting to remove the stgs?

And what's UKF stock assault inf?
What's soviet stock assault inf?
The "overwhelming use of PGs in AI role" clearly screams that ost doesn't even need that role for a stock unit.

And what's UKF stock assault inf?
What's soviet stock assault inf?
The "overwhelming use of PGs in AI role" clearly screams that ost doesn't even need that role for a stock unit.

I just said, 5man sappers are quite decent as assault inf. Soviets get 1 min penals. Learn to read, Katitof. And u still didn't answer my question: why do u allow allied fanboys to run wild on this forum, stating garbage like "Ost mortar was never nerfed" and "sector assault is still OP" Instead you harass much more knowledgeable members (than u) like Vipper on arguments you can't win.

Maybe that's why he's suggesting giving pgrens a whole bunch of utility...? Did you even read his whole post or just the part where they lose stgs? Cause he suggested giving them riegel mines, which would be a biiig bonus.

He said pgrens should start off with only one stg. He NEVER said that they can be upgraded with 3 stgs later which will return the AI firepower to the pgrens, if they don't want schrecks. I'd be fine if you can get 4 stgs through an upgrade.

I just said, 5man sappers are quite decent as assault inf. Soviets get 1 min penals. Learn to read, Katitof. And u still didn't answer my question: why do u allow allied fanboys to run wild on this forum, stating garbage like "Ost mortar was never nerfed" and "sector assault is still OP" Instead you harass much more knowledgeable members (than u) like Vipper on arguments you can't win.

5 man sappers are decent stop gap, they aren't going to be assaulting a lot other then flanked team weapons.
Penals are as much assault inf as rifles, pfussies or G43 grens. In fact, last 2 are much more of an assault inf, because they actually can hit something on the move.

And lastly, are you in utter denial about the fact that literally no one ever uses PGs for AI?
In case you misses it, its the point of this very thread.

I disagree with A-E's ideas. It's way too drastic and suffers from things that would gut the unit.

Not only is the squad not a proper AT squad from the get-go, unlike upgraded Panzergrenadiers -double schrecks are something that is very scary for tanks- as 144 damage is not only odd, but it's in this weird middle ground for 120/160 while have much less alphas strike damage than x2 Schrecks.

The strange mix of weapons is a very much "Why" thing and does nothing for the squad as the StG has to not be a slot item to ensure you don't lose your schreck, but the squad doesn't know what it wants to do. Slower movement speed is also a "Why" thing as no other infantry gets it and infantry can't keep up with most vehicles to begin with. The only thing really going for them is the Reigal, which should be available on all Ostheer lights, and smoke suits standard PGs better than an AT squad.

If anything the Panzerschreck upgrade could give them more AT stuff at the cost of other things, but the current package already works for what it offers.

Also I disagree with Ostheer not being allowed to have assault or mid-range infantry as a non-doctrinal thing. Their role can work in the army, they just need some adjustments, not a massive overhaul.

5 man sappers are decent stop gap, they aren't going to be assaulting a lot other then flanked team weapons.
Penals are as much assault inf as rifles, pfussies or G43 grens. In fact, last 2 are much more of an assault inf, because they actually can hit something on the move.

And lastly, are you in utter denial about the fact that literally no one ever uses PGs for AI?
In case you misses it, its the point of this very thread.

So 1min penals are as good as axis doctrinal infantry(that need muni upgrades) at assaulting positions. Not bad at all. Penals are still ok on the move unlike bolt action k98. And when was I in denial about PGs for AI? I was simply saying that taking away the stgs on PGs (which AE was suggesting) would result in Ost losing its only stock crack infantry for AI duties which AE says that Ost losing AI pgrens is perfectly fine.

+1 AE ideas are too radical. Ost has the worst mainline inf and by taking away it's only somewhat more premium troops will just worsen the situation while the other factions get much better stock crack troops.

They aren't even actually assault infantry, that's why they're non-doc. Can they match up to rangers, shocks, commandos? No. It's like calling sturms actual assault inf. Meanwhile USF gets assault inf on literally all doctrines except inf company, SU gets 1 min mark penals which are on par with pgrens and Brits get non-doc 5man sappers which are extremely cost efficient that can take on upgraded grenadiers sometimes.

Pgrens are more accessible and more risky but no less deadly. If you get them into position they absolutely shred.

I'm just going to quote myself again, since it looks like this train already has a predetermined destination. So for posterity's sake:

I think at this point Panzergrenadiers may function better as the old Stormtroopers. By which I mean starting with rifles and upgrading to StGs or panzerschrecks.

Splitting the panzerschreck upgrade into two might help pace munitions use as well.

This model would give panzergrenadiers a period in the game where they would help transition Ostheer out of the early game. They would mesh well with the standard grenadier and MG42 army composition before upgrading into new roles.

Their lack of a snare and LMG categorically sets them apart from Grenadiers and Obersoldaten. Their population cap may still need adjustment in this scenario, but the cost alone of the squad I think has always been prohibitive in upkeep.

Panzergrenadier timing I think is appropriate.

This option is also a passive buff for the G43 upgrade. No revamp necessary.

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