Wehrmacht Rework Ideas

Hello Ladies and Gentleman,

this Topic is focusing on some rework Ideas from my side for the Wehrmacht faction from CoH2.
First of all: Just ideas, none of this ideas will be a perfect solution for every player so please post your intensions and maybe new ideas under this topic!

1. Infantry

Like many veteran players already said (VonIvan for example in one of his later streams): Compared to other Factions, Wehr Infantry kinda sucks and always needs support from MGs, Tanks and snipers. Normal Grenadiers can barely count on themselves. First of all: Wehrmacht isnt a Infantry faction. This faction builds on its support weapons and platforms.But there are still some could ideas from my side which could improve Infantry Gameplay for Wehrmacht player in the early- and midgame.

Grenadiers:
How about a MP40 upgrade? You have the choise: An aggressive Grenadier (like Ass Grens but non doctrinal and less strong), who can push ATGs, Mgs or mortars or a defensive Grenadier with his MG42. I think this could spice things up!

Panzergrenadiers:
Just one Shreck? And if needed you can upgrade the second one.
One Shreck: Its still anti infantry but can also damage tanks and LVs (like penals with their PTRS upgrade)
Second Shreck: Now you have you Panzergrenadier focused on the `heavy`anti tank department. 2 STGs wont do a shit vs allied infantry.
I guess this would be interesting because you need to chose between 3 choises: Pure Anti Inantry, Less anti inf (but still potent and a bit vs tanks), or pure anti tank!

StuG III:
-Better front amour
-With vet 2, the upgraded MG on top of the StuG will provide LIGHT!!! supression to Infantry Units.
-With those 2 changes, its speed should get nerfed, but not radicaly

Mines:
-Just delet those Minefield pls....they are useless.
-All we need is a normal 30 Mun Mine which workes like the Soviet or OKW Mines!

(Dont know about the teller Mine at this point. Maybe remove it? Less damage? Whats your opinion?)

251 HT:
-If there is a unit in the Halftrack, it should provide LIGHT!!! supression, like after 2 Bursts (same like the StuG)

Just no.

Mines: Minefields are monstrous wips machines if you use them aggressively. The asymmetry suits me fine, though I appreciate that the okw/sov version is more general purpose. Getting Teller mines to wipe LVs abd Rigels for max track is more than enough mine laying compensation for having leas generalist options.

StuG: It does what it needs to really well and is cost efficient. The MG is juat a bonus, no need to try make it a dedicated TD and also a light anti infantry and face tanking vehicle... That's what the panther is for. Buy one of those if you want armour, else enjoy being a cheap end TD.

Grens: G43 upgrade for grenadiers already gives them a cqc upgrade

Pgren: Nobody is going to buy one shreck on a squad as pricy as pgrens unkess they're just too poor to afford two

HT: Please god no never again give us moving suppression vehicles that don't have a MU cost. The UC is bad enough and that's made of paper.

Werhmact are painful enough to play against without boosting their infantry. Just continue to spam your mgs and mortars till you get a panther and be happy.

Werhmact are painful enough to play against without boosting their infantry. Just continue to spam your mgs and mortars till you get a panther and be happy.

MG spam is how you lose as Ostheer. And Ostheer shouldn't be touched at all, it's every other faction that needs toning down to Ost levels.

MG spam is how you lose as Ostheer. And Ostheer shouldn't be touched at all, it's other every factions that need toning down to Ost levels.

Exactly.

Ostheer used to benchmark that other faction were balanced around, it should become that once more.

Axis factions tend to force hard desition making to the player. Pzgren taking at package to loose but all ai is an example. Grens are for dwfensive prupose too using offensively is risky, a hard choice again. Assgrens were the offensive and they got oblivion nerfed.
I do not agree with the changes suggest, imo. But at least its a good way to learn the game to discuss about units role and weaknesses

Exactly.

Ostheer used to benchmark that other faction were balanced around, it should become that once more.

Great point, as always some benchmark could make game balance clearer to identify. Ost being the benchmark isnt axis bias its simply a balanced faction within itself. SU is next to balanced with an extra offensive versatile perk, next USF being more versatile than offensive, then UKF in defensive and superirity and finally the least equilibried for being mostly about superiority and aggressiveness, hence many people claim it OP, its just their designs

I agree with being able to purchase shreks individually on pgrens. They don't have the staying power for two to make sense. I'd rather see the 2x on storm troopers as it fits more into the ambush playstyle. Playing a storm trooper doctrine into a t3 rush is really fun fwiw. Two single schrek squads feels "'right', and I think it should be a standard option.

Would love to be able to build two patches of mines. I'd actually use them then. 4 is always overkill and it's too distracting trying to do the cancel.

The rest of it is meh. MP40 grens would suck. It'd be the same problem as ass grens but even worse: technically you can win a fight, but you'll never have enough models left over to capitalize on it. If you misjudge just once and commit you'll lose the squad.

StuG could maybe have better frontal armor but suppression is completely out of the question.

It simply needs the ability to upgrade to a 5 man squad like the Brits, which should be limited to only Grenadier and Piooners. Should be available at Battle Phase 1 or 2. Same cost as Brits or more if neccessary. Squad wipes occur too frequently with Axis as Allies have mortars that are more overall devastating and tanks against AI.

That is what it simply needs, Like German Infantry Doctrine, simply a default version but nerfed in performance a little. That would be a balance. Brits counter Wehrmacht much more easily than Wehrmacht does. Brits Tommies although a bit more, performs better overall than base grens. I am not saying that they should exactly be the same, but survivability of gren must increase.

If you compare the utility available between the two classes, in the long run Tommy will be twice as efficient than single grenadier with all upgrades.

Brits counter Wehr easily in comparison to Wehrmacht since they have more or less similar units that Brits overall performs more consistently and better.

Wehr just needs Infantry Bolster Squad, restricted only to Piooners and Grenadiers, solve survivability and repair issues. Should be avaible either Battle Phase 1 or 2, same timing as Brits or later. Better keep Panzergrenadier the way they otherwise they will be too strong.

Is this a good idea?

It simply needs the ability to upgrade to a 5 man squad like the Brits, which should be limited to only Grenadier and Piooners. Should be available at Battle Phase 1 or 2. Same cost as Brits or more if neccessary. Squad wipes occur too frequently with Axis as Allies have mortars that are more overall devastating and tanks against AI.

That is what it simply needs, Like German Infantry Doctrine, simply a default version but nerfed in performance a little. That would be a balance. Brits counter Wehrmacht much more easily than Wehrmacht does. Brits Tommies although a bit more, performs better overall than base grens. I am not saying that they should exactly be the same, but survivability of gren must increase.

If you compare the utility available between the two classes, in the long run Tommy will be twice as efficient than single grenadier with all upgrades.

Brits counter Wehr easily in comparison to Wehrmacht since they have more or less similar units that Brits overall performs more consistently and better.

Wehr just needs Infantry Bolster Squad, restricted only to Piooners and Grenadiers, solve survivability and repair issues. Should be avaible either Battle Phase 1 or 2, same timing as Brits or later. Better keep Panzergrenadier the way they otherwise they will be too strong.

Is this a good idea?

Bolster should stay doctrinal imo. What really needs to be done is bringing other factions in line with Ostheer instead of buffing everything. If survivability increase is really needed, then either damage reduction against explosives or slight hp increase for models after BP2 or 3.

The StuG needs a smaller target size, which is historical since it had a low profile in the war. The Stug is slower than any medium tank in the game and is very easy to flank. The main problem of the Stug was its ROF, now that's been nerfed, it's no longer the alpha striking monster it once was, but now it has survivability problems with paper armor, low health and slowest speed and poor rotation speed too. And TWP needs to be fixed, ie. revert it to the old TWP but the stun only lasts 3 seconds like it does right now. The old TWP would last twice the length, that was unacceptable.

The Stug doesn't need supression from the mg. Better armor can work, but it may be a bit too strong. Reduced target size would benefit the Stug at long range while keeping it vulnerable at shorter ranges.

Bolster should stay doctrinal imo. What really needs to be done is bringing other factions in line with Ostheer instead of buffing everything. If survivability increase is really needed, then either damage reduction against explosives or slight hp increase for models after BP2 or 3.

I think Brits having the Bolster Squad is too OP especially what many other upgrades they can get. They get medkit (can be used multiple times once purchased) or coordinated fire upgrade plus 1 but 2 Brens guns plus Bolster Squad. So many upgrades that makes it like a Panzergrenadier but better in every way. Is that not OP. Try to use Sniper but get counter sniped. No chance, game over. They have buildings and abilities to increase repair speed, game over. From cover to cover, game over. Try to destroy emplacement, they brace structure, get countered, game over Wehrmacht especially for OKW. OKW has a better chance but Wehrmacht usually hardly.

Holding Fuel points MP points with Bofors + Anti Tank guns emplacement, game over. Usually 2v2 and above since they hold early-mid even late, but that is too late to counter then.

I think Bolster Squad Infantry for Brits should be doctrinal. Why should they get Bolster Squad, please tell me why they need it that bad? This would balance the game actually if they had only accessible to one General like Wehr does. They already are better by default without Bolster Squad.

Watch Stuve_Coh2 twitch streamer. He is just unstoppable as Brits, the accessibility is insane.

I think Brits having the Bolster Squad is too OP especially what many other upgrades they can get. They get medkit (can be used multiple times once purchased) or coordinated fire upgrade plus 1 but 2 Brens guns plus Bolster Squad. So many upgrades that makes it like a Panzergrenadier but better in every way. Is that not OP. Try to use Sniper but get counter sniped. No chance, game over. They have buildings and abilities to increase repair speed, game over. From cover to cover, game over. Try to destroy emplacement, they brace structure, get countered, game over Wehrmacht especially for OKW. OKW has a better chance but Wehrmacht usually hardly.

Holding Fuel points MP points with Bofors + Anti Tank guns emplacement, game over. Usually 2v2 and above since they hold early-mid even late, but that is too late to counter then.

I think Bolster Squad Infantry for Brits should be doctrinal. Why should they get Bolster Squad, please tell me why they need it that bad? This would balance the game actually if they had only accessible to one General like Wehr does. They already are better by default without Bolster Squad.

Watch Stuve_Coh2 twitch streamer. He is just unstoppable as Brits, the accessibility is insane.

Where have I said anything you mentioned here?

Not that you mentioned anything that I have referred. I am trying to emphasise how strong Brits are to counter as Wehrmacht, you did not say anything wrong Farlon. You mentioned that instead of buffing everything, why not nerf some things, Bolster Squad has to go away for Brits.

Why should Brits have Bolster Squad as they are already superior in terms of everything.

Infantry, vehicles, sniper, artillery and emplacements. What is Wehr good at, only Panther, that is the only main highlight I see as Wehrmacht, infantry units, ok. Brits either should have no Bolster Squad or Sniper, simply because Wehr gets countered by them easily.

It is possible but only with skilled players but the chances of winning as Wehrmacht is slim against UKF.

Can you explain to me why Brits should get Bolster Squad?

Because personally I do not they not think they need it at all.

Weh dont need rework

Absolutely not. Wehrmacht is a powerful faction if you play it properly. The only weakness is the lack of troops per infantry. E.g 4 man squads. An optional ability to get 5 man would pretty much solve that. The rest is a big NO.

MG spam is how you lose as Ostheer. And Ostheer shouldn't be touched at all, it's other every factions that need toning down to Ost levels.

I agree