New Commander Info: Creator Proposals and Discussion

Well,i think TigerAce is in dire need of a rework and it fits to the theme of the doctrine. And keep in mind that the Ace doesnt have to get the aura buff. It was just a suggestion. Thereby Wehrmacht and OKW commanders should be designed independently.
HEAT rounds and "Extra Equipment" are abilities that could fit very well.
But lets wait and see in which direction the mod team wants to go.

Well, IMO some combinations for commander abilities would be too meta or threaten the position of other commanders, for example:

- Tiger + HEAT (Tungsten). This would easily make the Tiger the strongest heavy tank, having the mobility and "low" cost of a Tiger with the damage output of a King Tiger. It can already beat an IS2 quite consistently, so it doesn't really need HEAT. You'd have to replace HEAT with Combined Arms or another ability in this case.

- Tiger + Assault Grenadiers. These are arguably already the most prominent abilities on mechanized assault, so they shouldn't both be on a new commander to prevent one commander outshining the other. Balance team would have to choose one or the other.

- Radio Intelligence + Ostheer. I could be wrong, but I think this would be far stronger for Ostheer than Soviets. Ostheer always has all counter options available to them, because of their linear tech. These counters also tend to be the best. Soviets also don't get elite infantry with radio intelligence doctrines (unless you count commissar), which makes it hard for them to compete in the infantry department. Ostheer infantry tends to be effective enough regardless of doctrines.

Reworking the Tiger Ace in the OKW commander would seem the best inbetween option to me, if the balance team also wants to rework assault grenadiers and wants to use the unused Tungsten voicelines (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtDNG3nJPL8&t=2m2s).

Well, IMO some combinations for commander abilities would be too meta or threaten the position of other commanders, for example:

- Tiger + HEAT (Tungsten). This would easily make the Tiger the strongest heavy tank, having the mobility and "low" cost of a Tiger with the damage output of a King Tiger. It can already beat an IS2 quite consistently, so it doesn't really need HEAT. You'd have to replace HEAT with Combined Arms or another ability in this case.

- Tiger + Assault Grenadiers. These are arguably already the most prominent abilities on mechanized assault, so they shouldn't both be on a new commander to prevent one commander outshining the other. Balance team would have to choose one or the other.

- Radio Intelligence + Ostheer. I could be wrong, but I think this would be far stronger for Ostheer than Soviets. Ostheer always has all counter options available to them, because of their linear tech. These counters also tend to be the best. Soviets also don't get elite infantry with radio intelligence doctrines (unless you count commissar), which makes it hard for them to compete in the infantry department. Ostheer infantry tends to be effective enough regardless of doctrines.

Reworking the Tiger Ace in the OKW commander would seem the best inbetween option to me, if the balance team also wants to rework assault grenadiers and wants to use the unused Tungsten voicelines (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtDNG3nJPL8&t=2m2s).

Well,i think TigerAce is in dire need of a rework and it fits to the theme of the doctrine. And keep in mind that the Ace doesnt have to get the aura buff. It was just a suggestion. Thereby Wehrmacht and OKW commanders should be designed independently.
HEAT rounds and "Extra Equipment" are abilities that could fit very well.
But lets wait and see in which direction the mod team wants to go.

Tiger Ace must be revamp. Currently it's horrible stage. Many people voted on Smartie idea becouse of that - including me. I'm not saying that commander shouldn't get any twicks or changes but hell, if you wanna remove Tiger Ace, radio intel and combine arms you make totally diffrent commander.

- Assualt grens already are in the same commander with a Tiger and they aren't overperforming what's so ever, it's not even meta.

- Colision HEAT round with Tiger wasn't exist in the main concept. HEAT is your idea and people didn't vote for it. Remember that Tiger has priority in the commander design.

Sorry DerbyHat but you cannot just make your own abilities for the new ostheer commander and simply removed the original ideas becouse they colide with yours. That's just silly.

- Tiger + Assault Grenadiers. These are arguably already the most prominent abilities on mechanized assault, so they shouldn't both be on a new commander to prevent one commander outshining the other. Balance team would have to choose one or the other.

I don't see a problem with this combination. It will be command Tiger, not a usual Tiger. So if you want normal variant - you go for Mec Assault. If you instead want overpriced Tiger with some additional utility (due to said utility) - you go for Tank Reserves. There is also 3 other ability, which different for both commanders.

1. Tiger Ace must be revamp. Currently it's horrible stage. Many people voted on Smartie idea becouse of that - including me.

2. I'm not saying that commander shouldn't get any twicks or changes but hell, if you wanna remove Tiger Ace, radio intel and combine arms you make totally diffrent commander.

3. Assault grens already are in the same commander with a Tiger and they aren't overperforming what's so ever, it's not even meta.

4. Colision HEAT round with Tiger wasn't exist in the main concept. HEAT is your idea and people didn't vote for it. Tiger has priority in the commander design.

Sorry DerbyHat but you cannot just make your own abilities for the new ostheer commander and simply removed the original ideas becouse they colide with yours. That's just silly.

1. Tiger Ace would still be revamped in the new OKW commander, I personally don't see why we need two Tiger+'s for both of the new axis commanders.

2. Not removed, but replaced with abilities that have a similar role for different reasons:
- Radio Intel would be replaced with another intelligence ability, be it a reconnaissance Luchs, recon plane or even spy network. Radio Intel is such a strong ability on its own that Ostheer would pick this commander (or Jaeger Armor) every single teamgame.
- Both would fit the theme ofcourse, but remember that Combined Arms was already added to USF mechanized last patch and still doesn't see much use. Tungsten has proven usability, unused voice lines and is not already used by an Allied faction.

3. My point is not that it would overperform, but rather that putting two abilities of an underused commander in a commander with an (IMO) superior skillset would completely counteract the extra diversity this patch is trying to create. Again: the balance team could just pick one instead of both.

4. To be fair, this was meant more for the OKW commander, which is supposed to come with a Command Tiger and HEAT rounds. It's bad design, just like elefant + spotting scopes or IS2 + mark target.

I just combined some of the ideas that were already given in this thread with my own within the theme of Smartie's commander and tried to make a workable concept from it, with the intent of providing some alternate ideas and voicing some of my concerns. I'm sorry if you find that silly.

Ok, fine but only by assuming that OKW Tiger I will replace the TigerAce. From what balance team already have shown it seems that OKW Tiger Command tank will be the simple ostheer tiger in vet 1-3. Vet4 and 5 gives command bonuses as time abilities. Doesn't compose with TigerAce to be honest. Of course that's all only scratch so it's not final.

I kinda feel they will try to remove TigerAce and put KingTiger on it's place (in same reason you meansioned - too many Tigers I in new axis commanders). We already know that they were thinking about buffing KT.

About HEAT and Tiger in same commander, look that balanceteam already noticed that it's dengerous composition and they changed it to tactical movements. So i wouldn't worry so much about that.

Additionally I;m afraid that p2 with assualt gren would make too good combo. Simple recon is off the table becouse OKW commander has it (too many similarities between them).

Sorry if you felt offended by my last comment. That wasn't my intension.

Ok, fine but only by assuming that OKW Tiger I will replace the TigerAce. From what balance team already have shown it seems that OKW Tiger Command tank will be the simple ostheer tiger in vet 1-3. Vet4 and 5 gives command bonuses as time abilities. Doesn't compose with TigerAce to be honest. Of course that's all only scratch so it's not final.

I kinda feel they will try to remove TigerAce and put KingTiger on it's place (in same reason you meansioned - too many Tigers I in new axis commanders). We already know that they were thinking about buffing KT.

About HEAT and Tiger in same commander, look that balanceteam already noticed that it's dengerous composition and they changed it to tactical movements. So i wouldn't worry so much about that.

Additionally I;m afraid that p2 with assualt gren would make too good combo. Simple recon is off the table becouse OKW commander has it (too many similarities between them).

Sorry if you felt offended by my last comment. That wasn't my intension.

Hadn't thought about King Tiger replacing the Tiger Ace, that honestly seems like a good idea if they balance its cost/performance for both factions (maybe in T4 for Ostheer?) Would also make the commander more distinct from mech assault if they do decide to change the assault grenadiers. In that case I'd either (depending on balance):

- Combine the pio upgrade with the skirt upgrade and leave out the pgren upgrade.
- Combine the pgren upgrade with the skirt upgrade, leave out the pio upgrade, give vet 2 crew repair instead of panzer tactician if skirts are bought.
- Leave out both infantry upgrades and give vet 2 crew repair if skirts are bought.

About the Panzer II, do you mean Ostheer would skip T1 with assault grenadiers and go straight for T2 Luchs? It could be locked behind 4 CP if rushing it is a problem. I personally like the idea of a beefy recon vehicle more than Radio Intercept. Radio Intercept is one of those abilities that can carry a commander on its own, like spotting scopes and overwatch flares, and doesn't provide any counterplay. Others might disagree tho.

If not for HEAT/tungsten, Combined Arms would need a change to become more attractive to use. Having it not override vet bonusses would be a start, but that could also let a vetted Pershing become a minigun when used (if the change would affect USF). Should probably give it other bonusses then, like accuracy.

tiger ace should be revamped

but i dont want to 2 diffrent version of Tiger in new axis commanders

I think King Tiger should be included in the new Weh commander

Guys,
are these the current boni from "Combined Arms" or are these stats
outdated?

"Infantry: -20% Reload +30% Accuracy, +35% sight
Vehicle: +35% sight, -30% Reload, +5 range"

Guys,
are these the current boni from "Combined Arms" or are these stats
outdated?

"Infantry: -20% Reload +30% Accuracy, +35% sight
Vehicle: +35% sight, -30% Reload, +5 range"

I think they still hold the place

Please, just make new abilities, don't do like another Ostheer/soviet commander style of just to rearrange old abilities in a "new" commander.

Please, just make new abilities, don't do like another Ostheer/soviet commander style of just to rearrange old abilities in a "new" commander.

I completely agree. If some abilities need fixing it should be done in balance patches not in new commander/revamp patches those should focus on better designing commanders and not in fixing balance issues of abilities.

tiger ace should be revamped

but i dont want to 2 diffrent version of Tiger in new axis commanders

I think King Tiger should be included in the new Weh commander

I would like to see the Tiger 1 in a OKW commander (not sure if we need more commander tanks, and we can keep the Tungsten round ability unlock so it’s not a super buff command Tiger and those rounds).

And the KT in a Wehr commander replacing the Tiger Ace would work.

Please, just make new abilities, don't do like another Ostheer/soviet commander style of just to rearrange old abilities in a "new" commander.

I'd love to see new stuff as well, but you need to keep in mind that Relic does NOT have developers on CoH2 anymore, its just modders.

One thing however I do agree, new soviet commander looks lame and boring as fuck compared to literally anyone else, especially axis options - again extremely cheap and bad stuff in separate slots while others get "ultimate package deal".

OKW
This commander sounds like it's going to be a nightmare for 3v3/4v4. Giving them a command tiger as well as HEAT sounds like overkill. A standard tiger would be more than good enough.

UKF
Roastin Ghost's Proposal sounds like the most interesting/useful. The UKF need some decent inf and having a 'new' type of light tank for the early game is great.
Although perhaps the best version would be A.Soldier's Proposal but with the M10 replaced with the Stuart Mk. VI.

USF
With only one Pershing commander in the game, I feel like it has to be crexas' Proposal if only so there are at least two pershing commanders (otherwise what a tragic waste of the only heavy tank the US have). I would recommend cavalry rifleman for ability 3.
That would basically be Heavy Cavalry Commander 1.5 but at least it would mean the US get two pershing commanders.

WEHR
This one sounds totally OP, to the point of being a joke. I'm amazed this one made it to the final selection.

SOVIETS
This one is very, very underwhelming. Were there no better suggestions?!

Ez8 and Pershing have only one commander

The newly adopted "urban assault company" seems boring and worse than infantry company

How about make new one likes Soviet armored assault tactics?


USF Armored assault company

concept : massive heavy armors and air support

0cp) assault engineer

0cp) Ez 8

4cp) air supply drop zone

12cp) P47 rocket strike

13cp) Pershing

USF
With only one Pershing commander in the game, I feel like it has to be crexas' Proposal if only so there are at least two pershing commanders (otherwise what a tragic waste of the only heavy tank the US have). I would recommend cavalry rifleman for ability 3.
That would basically be Heavy Cavalry Commander 1.5 but at least it would mean the US get two pershing commanders.

I think its a little chance that they add pershing but if they add i think pershing with mortar halftruck would be intresting

OKW
This commander sounds like it's going to be a nightmare for 3v3/4v4. Giving them a command tiger as well as HEAT sounds like overkill. A standard tiger would be more than good enough.

BalanceTeam've already shown their sketch of conpect and there won't be any HEAT round in the commander. It's gonna be replace by tactical movement. OKW Tiger will be a simple ostheer version (same vet1-3) but with time, probably not free, command abilities which buffs: nearbly infantry (vet4 ability) and tanks (vet5 ability).

Again, and again, chill out people. Those ideas aren't final and it's not time to complain that something will be overpowered or underpowered becouse those units gonna be ajusted.

With judgement I would wait until commander mod will be avaialable

Work shop test patch when ?

If the approximate dates of the test new commanders?

Lets hope we get new information this week. OKW and Soviet commanders looked promising so far.