Why does the Firefly have to suck so much?

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:19 PMblvckdream

I updated the stats but the Firefly is still the worst in terms of TTK an DPS. So yeah my argument still stands.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:29 PMblvckdream

Maybe dont forget to mention that even at vet 3 it has 210 far penetration while SU 85 and Jackson have 286. Jackson also has HVAP rounds that give it 325 far penetration at vet 3. It doesn´t make any difference against Panthers and P4s but against Tiger and KT the Firefly will bounce more often than the cheaper Jackson and SU85.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:30 PMStug life

your argument still stand id u don't count all the other perks the FF has, su 85 has the best dps cause it has no rotating turret, the FF is almost the same as the m36 with better accuracy access to tulips, same armor as a medium tank, 45 mid range instead of 30 so more accuracy and pen

ff is not the worst TD it's the same as other

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:33 PMStug life

210 pen is just 10 less than the other while it gets 45 mid range so ff only has worse pen at 60 range at 50 it should have more already

and 40 more damage at vet 3 mean 1 less shot for medium tank, that's huge, and only 4 shoot to kill a panther (which now has much worse armor)

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:35 PMblvckdream

FF has worst penetration of SU85 and Jackson, especially with vet. It also has the worst mobility, it cant chase retreating tanks unlike Jacksons. It costs way more than and other medium TD and you will have to burn 100s of munis to make it somewhat effective. The only thing the FF has going for it is it´s accuracy. The fact that it has a turret makes very little diffrence considering the rotation speed is lower than the turn speed of other medium casemate TDs.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:40 PMStug life

u ignore ant positive thing about the FF (u still have to count he 45 mid range) and most engagement dont happen in 60 range and as i said the FF has actual medium tank armor so a medium tank can't just kill it from the front like a su 85

it's the only tanks that with vet needs 1 less shoot to kill a medium tank, i take that over pen any day as pen is chance based damage is not ( and yes 1 lees shoot for panther and heavy tank too)

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:43 PMblvckdream

FF armor is 160. SU 85 is 140 and Jackson 130. You want to tell me that 20 armor makes a huge difference now? The FF has the worst survivability by far when you consider it´s huge target size and bad mobility. Jacksons can easily get out of a double Raks range for example while a FF has little chance and most often just dies.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:45 PMStug life

quote u hypocrite: Firefly: 260/240/210 (less far penetration than cheaper SU85 and Jackson, wtf?) it's 10 pen

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:46 PMblvckdream

325-210= 115 less pen than vet 3 jackson HVAP

286-210= 76 less pen than vet 3 jackson and SU 85

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:48 PMStug life

keep deflecting u were talking about vet 0 pen don't derail so u can be right, u are an hypocrite and only like to look at what further proves ur argument

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:48 PMblvckdream

When did I say that I exclusively talk about vet 0? It´s simply too much work to give stats for all vet levels in the OP.

Jump back to quoted post8 Mar 2019, 22:54 PMinsaneHoshi

"much like everyone else"

Do you even know what the costs are for everyone else?

OKW for example (including all side tech as you did in your example) comes to 265 fuel. OKW starts with 5 so this is really 260

UKF (to get a FF and a Croc) comes to 205. UKF starts with 20, so this is 185

Tell me, how at all are these two values comparable?

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:29 PMblvckdream

Maybe dont forget to mention that even at vet 3 it has 210 far penetration while SU 85 and Jackson have 286. Jackson also has HVAP rounds that give it 325 far penetration at vet 3. It doesn´t make any difference against Panthers and P4s but against Tiger and KT the Firefly will bounce more often than the cheaper Jackson and SU85.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 15:39 PMblvckdream

I am starting to wonder if all the people that think FF is great only play 3v3 and 4v4 because I don´t see good players building FF in 1v1 and rarely in 2v2.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 18:55 PMdistrofio

OP wants to use FF as M36 on UKF, a brawler high mobility T4 TD, thats the problem. I see a lot of unproductive discussions because OP doesnt want to understand.

FF is fine as everylne says and a little price drop was the onlu possible buff, but its not neccesary at all

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2019, 20:24 PMStug life

the FF is more of a brawler than the jackson actually as it has Sherman armor