Why does the Firefly have to suck so much?

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 13:39 PMblvckdream

Why is the JP4 too expensive to counter medium tanks? It costs roughly the same as a Su85 and less than Jackson and Firefly. It's also next to impossible for Allied medium tanks to do much damage to it because of 230 frontal armor. Unlike allied TDs that all get penned at a high percentage by P4s

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 13:39 PMblvckdream

Why is the JP4 too expensive to counter medium tanks? It costs roughly the same as a Su85 and less than Jackson and Firefly. It's also next to impossible for Allied medium tanks to do much damage to it because of 230 frontal armor. Unlike allied TDs that all get penned at a high percentage by P4s

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 13:47 PMKatitof

I'll remind you about this every single time you'll complain about Panther vs TDs again the future.


Its price is very in line with TDs of this tier. It also has amazing vet that makes it most survivable 60 range TD. Its perfectly fine counter to mediums and as long as OKW has panther, no, its penetration is not too low vs heavies, because its not meant to engage them, you have specialist vehicle for that in the same tier.


Its a top tier TD which is supposed to be hardcounter WITHOUT being spammed for up to 375 STOCK armor.
Its pen being too good is your personal opinion, not balance fact.

And your opinion on vet is plain wrong, taking away RoF vet, making it machinegun TD obliterating both heavies and mediums alike with equal ease and replacing it with pen that makes a difference exclusively vs heavies while doing absolutely nadda against meds and increasing reload time only makes it better vs heavies, the exact units it was supposed to be better against.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 14:08 PMVipper

I see you little campaign of proving Vipper wrong still goes on with the usual poor result.

The penetration is high this is a fact not a personal opinion supported by stats:
Vetted SU-85 Penetration 312/299/286

Vetted Panther Penetration 260/240/220

Chance to penetrate at max range:
Vetted Panther 100%
Vetted Tiger 95.3%
Vetted KT 76.3%

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 14:08 PMVipper

I see you little campaign of proving Vipper wrong still goes on with the usual poor result.

The penetration is high this is a fact not a personal opinion supported by stats:
Vetted SU-85 Penetration 312/299/286
Veted FF Penetration 260/240/210
Vetted Panther Penetration 260/240/220

Chance to penetrate at max range:
Vetted Panther 100%
Vetted Tiger 95.3%
Vetted KT 76.3%

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 14:26 PMElSlayer

Vetted top tier Tank Destroyer has high chance to penetrate armor of late game tanks.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 14:35 PMKatitof

In other words:

Its reliably doing its one fucking job.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 14:35 PMKatitof

Why you never argue for Panther having too much penetration right out of the gate, when allies armor value overall is much lower then axis?

Penetration being high is a fact.
Penetration being too high is your personal opinion.

Learn the difference, these two are not the same and you've erased yourself the line between facts and your own opinion.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 15:43 PMGiaA

Buff its speed. Isn't it a sherman? They were relatively fast right?

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 16:26 PMVipper

One will probably have to redesign Tulips to to make the performance of the unit more consistent.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 15:40 PMPorygon

Another stupid DPS argument.
Don't you know something like Alpha damage?

By DPS, Elephant and JT must be a total piece of shit.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 16:51 PMblvckdream

Elefant does 37.5 at Vet 0 and 66.9 at Vet 3.

JT does 35 at vet 0 and 111.9 at Vet 5.

So yeah they dont have bad DPS.

I think the Firefly just deserves a cost reduction to around 360/140. Then it can stay the "unique" TD it is now but not cost so much more without actually being better as comparable Allied TDs (Jackson and SU85). Considering the amount of munitions you need on top of the highest stock price makes you think you get a really really good TD that outclasses comparable vehicles but that´s just not the case at the moment.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 17:37 PMVipper

DPS without Armor and target size values does not mean much.

In addition its actually time to kill that matter because JT and Elephant usually overkill. If you want to use DPS you have to lower the damage according to the number of shots.

For instance a Elephant vs medium does 900 damage to kill a medium so its damage medium so be considered 214 if you are using DPS calculations.

So actually the DPS of vetted Elephant vs a medium is about equal to that of vetted FF without the tulips although it need allot more XP to get to vet 3.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 12:45 PMVipper

You have to factor in tulips DPS also...
You have to factor in the bonus from commander
You have to factor in that FF has the long mid range than most (if not all) TDs.
You have to factor in the possibility war speed/Hammer trucking (or fast repair)

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 18:23 PMMongal

Yeah but the Ele/JT can shoot your medium from the other side of the map. Not surprising you do not include the strongest point of these 2 units.

Back on topic. I would like to see some sort of small acceleration/speed buff for the FF. Its a sitting duck against any diving axis tanks/TDs.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 18:28 PMSuperHansFan

And yet you ignore OKW super fast repairs stock, lower pop cap for jagdpanzer and USF vehicle crews, you would be a great poster vipper if you looked at both sides of balance.

On topic I think the FF needs like 10 less fuel and 40mp less MP shaved off, after snares it can actually somewhat work now. Prepatch it was getting lulz stomped even by pumas

Also tulips shouldn't be so goofy to use, let us fire them on the move like any other ability